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Member (Idle past 5472 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Should we let Bill Frist & Co. change the rules of the senate ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rrhain Member (Idle past 326 days) Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phatboy writes:
quote: I can see no clearer example of the falsity of this statement than the so-called "culture of life" claim put forward by Bush and the other Republicans. If abortion is not allowed because "all life is precious," then why do we have the death penalty? It would seem that it's all relative...whether or not life is precious depends upon the circumstances. For all Bush's crowing about how Schiavo needed to be saved, why did Bush sign the "Futile Care Law" that had the life-sustaining technology keeping a baby alive, resulting in its death? The idea that Republicans...or anybody, for that matter...believe in a "fixed morality" and not a "relative" one is naive in the extreme. Everybody's morality is relative. Nobody lives up to fixed absolutes. Nobody can. It helps, however, to understand that you are functioning with a relative morality so that you can discuss the various scenarios that have us make one choice when previously we made another one. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 4230 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
For any who care. It may not matter but it will only take a minute to sign the petition.
About MoveOn Political Action FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX. -- Lewis Black, The Daily Show
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Tal Member (Idle past 5996 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
"The Senate must oppose the "nuclear option" to eliminate the filibuster, and preserve the checks and balances that have kept our courts fair and independent for centuries."
ROFL!! Anyone with a basic knowledge of civics knows that the filibuster has NOTHING TO DO with checks and balances. Checks and balances has to do with each branch checking on the other 2 branches (except of course for the judicairy, who is above being checked and balanced and don't you dare excercise that constitutional right Congress!). Ya'll are reaching. /southern drawl off Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8 No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Anyone with a basic knowledge of civics knows that the filibuster has NOTHING TO DO with checks and balances. arguable, but i see what you mean. it is generally viewed as a way to prevent mob-rule in the senate. which is a sort-of check.
except of course for the judicairy, who is above being checked and balanced and don't you dare excercise that constitutional right Congress! not true at all. the judicial branch can only check the other branches, it doesn't do anything else on its own. it doesn't make the laws, it just tosses out the ones that are bad. similarly, the constitution can be amended by congress, which is a check and balance of the judicial branch. don't like how they handle the constitution? congress can change it. of course "Anyone with a basic knowledge of civics knows" that.
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sfs Member (Idle past 2852 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: |
quote:The procedures for changing the Senate rules are not available to the Republicans, since motions to change the rules are also subject to filibuster, and therefore require a supermajority. (The supermajority is 60% to close debate, by the way, not 67%.) What Frist et al are going to have to do is declare judicial filibusters unconstitutional. Democrats will challenge this ruling, and the Republicans will then table the challenge indefinitely. That motion is not subject to filibuster, and so will carry on a simple majority vote, assuming the leadership can muster a majority. (The unconstitutionality ruling could theoretically be subject to challenge in the courts, especially since it's pretty much nuts as constitutional law, but it's hard to imagine a court intervening in the Senate's internal affairs.) At least that's my understanding of the situation. Note also that there were, prior to the current administration, a couple of other traditional practices that permitted the minority party to block judicial nominees: the "blue slip" rule (which permitted a single senator from the nominee's home state to block a nomination) and Rule IV, which required the consent of at least one minority committee member to pass a nomination on to the full Senate. Both have been changed since 2000.
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sfs Member (Idle past 2852 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: |
quote:Congress cannot amend the Constitution; only the states can do that. Congress can propose amendments.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 4230 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Making it reasonably difficult to put just anyone you want into a permanent position of judicial authority? Who would want that in a free country?! SHEESH!
Here is the link again for those of you who want to sign the petition. Take 1 min to participate in your government. About MoveOn Political Action Thanks to Tal for showing us all why we need to care! God Bless, FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX. -- Lewis Black, The Daily Show
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jar Member (Idle past 158 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
is fast and efficient government.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5996 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
I'm here for you!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8 No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1785 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
A simple up or down vote is all that is needed, traditionally To the contrary; traditionally a president would not even offer a candidate who did not have the support of a supermajority in the Senate. A simple majority is neither mandated by the Constitution nor the traditional practice; what the Constitution does specifiy is that the Senate has the power to set its own procedures, and Frist's attempt to eliminate the filibuster flies in the face of those procedures, and is thus unconstitutional.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1785 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Anyone with a basic knowledge of civics knows that the filibuster has NOTHING TO DO with checks and balances. In regards to the judicial filibuster, the specific procedure under consideration, this is absolutely false.
Checks and balances has to do with each branch checking on the other 2 branches Right. In this case, this is a check on the judiciary.
except of course for the judicairy, who is above being checked and balanced Um, no, that's what the judicial filibuster represents - a check on the judiciary.
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Phat Member Posts: 18709 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
This is what Focus on the family e-mailed me. Kinda lets you know how they talk to their "supporters". I have bought some tapes from them so I get all the e-mails...I am not in agreement with everything they do, however.
FOCUS writes: The debate is almost over in the battle to restore Senate tradition by ending the Democrats' unprecedented filibusters of President Bush's judicial nominees. In what could be a matter of hours, senators may be asked to vote on the "constitutional option" -- a plan to return to 51, the number of votes needed to confirm a nominee to the federal bench. Those behind the filibusters have tried every trick in the book to paint the constitutional option as a Republican "power grab," but Focus on the Family Action Chairman Dr. James Dobson says it's all smoke and mirrors -- just the latest example of the kind of name-calling (as reported by Dr. Dobson in CitizenLink) that liberals have resorted to because they have no rational arguments to offer. "Liberals (are) ratcheting up their rhetoric, accusing the GOP -- and me, personally -- of committing grave crimes against democracy," Dr. Dobson explains. "Colorado Sen. Ken Salazar has called me the 'antichrist of the world' for pointing out how he broke his campaign promise by supporting his party's filibusters. On the Senate floor last week Vermont's Patrick Leahy -- after wondering what planet I might be from -- accused me of 'contemptible' actions and of practicing 'religious McCarthyism' for pointing out the anti-religious bias evident in the public statements and actions of some Democratic senators." "This kind of bluster is what is contemptible. It is just another attempt to obscure the real issue here -- that every judicial nominee with clear majority support is entitled to an up-or-down vote," Dr. Dobson adds. "Sen. Salazar, Sen. Leahy and their colleagues won't admit that, because it would jeopardize their efforts to hang on to the last bastion of liberal power, the courts. But their smokescreens must be seen through, and the constitutional option must be approved at the conclusion of this debate." You can do your part to make that happen by calling your two U.S. senators right now -- at their Washington and local district offices -- and telling them respectfully that you want them to end the obstruction and support the constitutional option. For a list of office phone numbers for both of your senators, visit the CitizenLink Action Center and type your ZIP code into the space provided. (Incidentally, you might be interested to know that -- despite the charges of the left -- it's hardly radical to oppose the use of filibusters to prevent up-or-down votes for judicial nominees. Back in 1968, in fact, some of the leading legal minds in the country said as much in a letter to the Senate.) Thank you for taking the time to stand for righteousness. Personally, I think that Christians should stay OUT of politics. Jesus never ran for office. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-23-2005 04:34 PM
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jar Member (Idle past 158 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
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Alexander Inactive Member |
That sticker is the hotness. Put me in for a dozen.
'Most temperate in the pleasures of the body, his passion was for glory only, and in that he was insatiable.'
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berberry Inactive Member |
Lindsey Graham went on Hardball and said that some of the current judicial nominees are opposed by enough republicans that they won't be able to win on an up-or-down vote. He didn't say which one(s), but he says we'll know soon enough. If that's true then I suppose this agreement could be a good thing.
Once Bush sends up a religious wingnut for the SCOTUS we're gonna be right back where we are now. I can see a possible advantage to the moderates and liberals here: the general public will likely be paying more attention to nominees for the SCOTUS. If Roe v. Wade seems threatened by an extreme nominee, using the nuclear option would be much more risky for the republicans because the resulting shutdown of the Senate promised by the democrats would likely have more public support than it would now. Keep America Safe AND Free!
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