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Member (Idle past 5472 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Should we let Bill Frist & Co. change the rules of the senate ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
zyncod Inactive Member |
Oh, yeah, I have lost the freedom to walk through my city without having to submit to arbitrary security checkpoints and blockades. Especially since any terrorist that really wanted to bring New York down could bring a coordinated attack on the bridges and tunnels. A couple of years after that happens, New York is going to be the equivalent of Witchita, KS.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
But if you hate America so much, move to Cuba. Isn't it that the Republicans are trying to change things? I mean last time I checked it was the Republicans crying because they can't get people in positions to change the existing laws, or allow them to step around the constitution (indeed some even wanted to change the Constitution), so that they can make the US more fundamentalist Xian or mega corporate friendly. That would indicate that the Conservative Republicans hate America, not those who like things as they are. My suggestion is that Y'all go move to Saudi Arabia, or perhaps Iraq since it will be the beacon of religious Democracy for all to follow. By the way, though I do not hate all corporations, I want to point out one does not have to love corporations to love America. Where anyone got the idea that you have to like a specific economic entity to be a patriotic American is beyond me. America is about freedom and tolerance, not that goods are bought and sold through largescale production and distribution networks. Heck, one could argue that it is more patriotic (at the very least more conservative) to be championing small family owned, or locally operated, businesses. I mean why would loving Mistubishi, or Philips, or BMW make one patriotic? Large corporations are non national. Don't be a tool. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
What freedoms have you, personally, lost since 911? Personally, I've lost the freedom to hold my head up proudly and say that the US has one of the best intelligence services in the world, that it will pursue our greatest enemies with bulldog tenacity and hawkish vigiliance, that it won't invade other nations on trumped up and flimsy pretexts, and that it has a public which will hold their leaders responsible when great errors have been commited. But to be fair, Congress had little to do with that. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Monk Member (Idle past 4243 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Holmes writes: That would indicate that the Conservative Republicans hate America, not those who like things as they are. But do your really HATE corporate America and consider it an ENEMY as does EZScience? That was the comment I was responding to.
Holmes writes: I want to point out one does not have to love corporations to love America. Where anyone got the idea that you have to like a specific economic entity to be a patriotic American is beyond me. America is about freedom and tolerance, not that goods are bought and sold through largescale production and distribution networks. Heck, one could argue that it is more patriotic (at the very least more conservative) to be championing small family owned, or locally operated, businesses. Yes, it is beyond me why the two are linked. So why do liberals provide the link? Why do liberals sterotype by saying corporations always use phony Republican values issues to try and secure an eternal flow of unending wealth at the expense of the common people in this country. This is doom and gloom speak and is the real misrepresentation. BTW, the term corporate America does not denote size.
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Tal Member (Idle past 5996 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Double post for the lose.
This message has been edited by Tal, 05-25-2005 03:14 PM I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it. No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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Tal Member (Idle past 5996 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
So you haven't lost any freedoms. Your pride in the Intelligence community, if there ever was any, is a bit hurt though.
I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it. No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 4230 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
First of all, it is the Republicans NOT the Democrats, who are continously eroding our 'freedoms'. Democrats are not trying to 'eliminate religious freedoms', just ensure that your psychotic theo-crats don't step on the freedoms of others as they pander to all their bible-thumping supporters. As a Dem I can honestly say that this is not exactly true. Often the cases of overextension of the Establishment Clause come from the extreme left and they are known for their pandering to Hollywood to restrict digital rights. I hate the Dem's policy on digital media, DRM, etc. It is straight up unconstitutional. That is why we need sensibility in the government. Right now that seems to be more leaning left but the left is by no means blameless. Support digial rights! Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX. -- Lewis Black, The Daily Show
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 4230 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
That would be Ammendment IV and Ammendment V of the Bill of Rights. By definition.
You can now be searched and seized without jurisdiction.You can now be held without trial. Care to contest? FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX. -- Lewis Black, The Daily Show
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Congress cannot amend the Constitution; only the states can do that. Congress can propose amendments. er, yes. sorry. states have to ratify congress's proposal. 2/3rd's to propose, and 3/4 of the state legislatures have to ratify to enact. but it's still a check on judicial.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
But do your really HATE corporate America and consider it an ENEMY as does EZScience? That was the comment I was responding to. I was responding to your cliched "America, love it or leave it" answer. Even if he hates corporations and feels they are the enemy, that would not make him an America hater. However, if you dislike what Americans are like and want to change them by fiat, that would be anti-American. But to answer your question, no I do not believe that corporations are inherently an enemy to the people. They are just business entities. That said, I do believe there are legitimate concerns regarding some corporations at this time, and their connection to gov't needs to be removed. Gov'ts should be above large corporations, and not the other way around.
So why do liberals provide the link? Actually they don't. There are plenty of liberals that enjoy corporations and do not fear them as the enemy. You are spouting conservative dogma. You will find some liberals that do this, but not all or even most. Indeed some of the most liberal might not have anything against corporations.
corporations always use phony Republican values issues to try and secure an eternal flow of unending wealth at the expense of the common people in this country. Uh, well I've never actually heard that statement before. Its the "phony Republican values" that throws me. I do believe corporations try and use their connections to try and secure an eternal flow of unending wealth at the expense of the American taxpayers. That is in their interest, so of course they would. Don't you think they do?
BTW, the term corporate America does not denote size. In a way it does. A corporation could technically be one guy sitting in a room with a computer. When someone says "corporate America" my guess is they generally do not mean that. Indeed it is your own depiction of corporations as the entities which provide X Y and Z that betrays your own acceptance of what "corporate" means, and it is about large corporate structures. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
what the Constitution does specifiy is that the Senate has the power to set its own procedures, absolutely correct.
and Frist's attempt to eliminate the filibuster flies in the face of those procedures, and is thus unconstitutional. rhetorical question. bill frist is not just a senator but the senate majority leader. so his campaign would in effect be promoting that the senate changes its own constitutionally allowed procedures. how would the senate changing its own rules that were not specified by the constitution be unconstitutional? (granted, i agree with you. i don't like frist and his proposal. i think it's ad hoc and despicable.)
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Tal Member (Idle past 5996 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
You can now be searched and seized without jurisdiction. You can now be held without trial. Have you been searched and seized without jurisdiction or held without trial? I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it. No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Personally, I think that Christians should stay OUT of politics. Jesus never ran for office. i disagree. i don't think ANYONE should stay out of politics. i just think they should not legislate religion.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 6138 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
So you haven't lost any freedoms. I just told you the freedoms I have lost, and they are the same kinds of freedoms fundies claim they have lost all the time. Remember Janet's nipple? How about Clinton's BJ? How about the idea that some gays might get married? I want the same kinds of freedoms that fundies claim. That's only fair. But if you are asking if there have been any laws which were made, or powers extended, such that certain rights I enjoyed before 911 no longer exist... then the answer is yes. I am uncertain how you can claim otherwise when Ashcroft and Bush both explained the reason why powers were extended and certain laws needed. Ash held a whole press conference to tout the success of having altered powers. And it was also in the news that certain powers extended only for use against terrorists, ended up getting used against a guy for fraud or racketeering. Those in entertainment have also lost the freedom to broadcast as freely as they used to. That was not a result of terrorism, but was of conservative meddling in the media. Do you deny any of these changes? holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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