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Author | Topic: a graph for borger to explain | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
monkenstick Inactive Member |
someone posted this on infidels, I thought it was quite interesting
Figure C1. Distribution of genetic distances between human and mouse genes. The histogram is the actual data from 2,019 human and mouse genes. The solid curve shows the expected distribution of genetic distances assuming only a constant rate of background mutation (~10^-9 substitutions per site per year) (reproduced from Figure 3a in Kumar and Subramanian 2002). (originally from A response to Ashby Camp's "Critique") [The src attribute value was missing a close quote. --Admin] [This message has been edited by Admin, 10-29-2002]
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monkenstick Inactive Member |
bummer it didn't work
anyway, this is the image adress http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/evo_dist.gif and the legend:
quote:
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
What you wanna do to display an image is use the address and use this code:
[img src="address"]--Replace [ & ] with < & > Your address = http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/images/evo_dist.gif So: --Quotes are not necessarelly required in an img src html tag. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 10-29-2002]
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peter borger Member (Idle past 7691 days) Posts: 965 From: australia Joined: |
dear Monkenstick,
It seems to me as a nice Gaussian curve, i.e. normal distribution. best wishes,Peter
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monkenstick Inactive Member |
yes, normal distribution, a common shape when the variables are random
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6501 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: ****** Good one
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Fred Williams Member (Idle past 4882 days) Posts: 310 From: Broomfield Joined: |
quote: Uh, why is this a "good one"? Have you looked at the study? Even if we assumed the study is entirely accurate, it would not be evidence against adaptively directed (non-random) mutations. Not even remotely. Do you know why?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1902 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Tell us Fred! tell us! Of course, we must not assume that the study is accurate. Only creationist assertions are to be presumed accurate - not to mention beyond reproach....
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wj Inactive Member |
Fred, while you're here, will you be responding to numerous outstanding questions which have previously been asked of you?
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monkenstick Inactive Member |
fred is correct in a way, because the graph represents differences between neutral positions within genes. What the graph does show however, is that random mutation does act within genes. If he wants to draw some invisible boundary for random mutations between redundant codon positions and those that cause a.a changes, well go ahead, but it sounds like a very "magical" and far-fetched explanation to me.
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Fred Williams Member (Idle past 4882 days) Posts: 310 From: Broomfield Joined: |
quote: Why am I not surprised the resident post-hole digger didn't figure this out. Specifically, the study only considers synonymous mutations in the 3rd codon position where any base will still yield the same amino acid (called four-fold degenerate site). Thus, the study will have nothing to say whatsoever of mutations with selective value (such as adaptively directed mutations, which is what this particular debate is all about).
quote: So? I don't think anyone has disputed this.
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peter borger Member (Idle past 7691 days) Posts: 965 From: australia Joined: |
dear All,
End of the story, I guess. Peter
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monkenstick Inactive Member |
so how do you propose that random mutations act only on fourfold degenerate sites, and not all sites within the gene?
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6501 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: ***************** Yes you are both wrong and niether of you understand random mutation. Glad we cleared that up finally.
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Mammuthus Member (Idle past 6501 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
quote: ****************** No Fred, enlighten me with your thus far non-apparent wisdom of mutation mechanisms. Here is a Dloop from an individual from China, where will all the pre-adaptive non-random mutations occur exactly? You cannot answer, do YOU know why? 1 ttctttcatg gggaagcaga tttgggtacc acccaagtat tgactcaccc atcaacaacc61 gctatgtatt tcgtacatta ctgccagcca ccatgaatat tgtacggtac cataaatact 121 tgaccacctg tagtacataa aaacccaatc cacatcaacc cccccccccc atgcttacaa 181 gcaagtacag caaccaaccc tcaactatca cacatcaact gcaactccaa agccacccct 241 cacccactag gataccaaca aacctaccca cccttaacag tacatagtac ataaagccat 301 ttaccgtaca tagcacatta cagtcaaatc ccttctcgcc cccatggatg acccccctca
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