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Author Topic:   Is Christ cruel? (For member Schrafinator)
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 306 (213119)
06-01-2005 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by J. Davis
06-01-2005 8:59 AM


Morality and cruelty are subjective terms. Unless there is an objective standard for morality (and I haven't yet seen Christians give a convincing objective standard for morality -- the whims of the creator are just as arbitrary as anyone else's), then, yes, Christ is immoral and cruel if he violates shrafinator's standards of morality. Or anyone else's. On the other hand, he is not immoral if his conduct is within the standards that you set.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by J. Davis, posted 06-01-2005 8:59 AM J. Davis has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 306 (213125)
06-01-2005 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
06-01-2005 1:33 PM


Nothing important left out.
Hi, Faith.
I am going to hit you on the nose unless you believe that I am the greatest genius that ever lived. I can tell by the look on your face that you do not believe that I am the greatest genius that ever lived, so I am going to hit you on the nose.
Am I being cruel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 06-01-2005 1:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 06-01-2005 1:50 PM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 306 (213132)
06-01-2005 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
06-01-2005 1:50 PM


Re: Nothing important left out.
Actually, no, I don't know. He seems to have made some claims, but I don't have any verification that God's claims are valid, nor that they justify the demands that he makes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 06-01-2005 1:50 PM Faith has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 306 (213178)
06-01-2005 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by randman
06-01-2005 3:02 PM


quote:
Or, he could have reasoned, since this is God talking to me and knows a lot more than I do, it is logical to move and believe the promises He made to me.
And our mental hospitals are filled with people who reason just like this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by randman, posted 06-01-2005 3:02 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by randman, posted 06-01-2005 3:15 PM Chiroptera has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 306 (213185)
06-01-2005 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by randman
06-01-2005 3:15 PM


No, I am arguing that people who hear God speaking to them have good reason to be skeptical.
Surely you aren't arguing that everyone who claims that God is speaking to her is exhibiting the kind of faith that you find admirable?

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 Message 21 by randman, posted 06-01-2005 3:15 PM randman has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 306 (213200)
06-01-2005 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Modulous
06-01-2005 3:59 PM


Re: Free will
quote:
Her choice is to deny Christ.
While I can't speak for shrafinator, I doubt that it is entirely her choice. I used to be a Christian (of the fundamentalist, evangelical kind). I never chose to become an atheist -- I wanted very much to remain a Christian, and I fought the loss of my faith very hard.
The problem with the "mainstream" evangelical ideology is that it cannot accept the idea that people may be damned to eternal torment for something beyond their control -- that is why there is this idea that somehow non-believers must "know", deep in their hearts, that God and Jesus are real, and that they must willingly choose to deny God. It's not to convince us non-believers of anything -- we, after all, know what we believe -- it is to allow the believers to sleep at night.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 06-01-2005 3:59 PM Modulous has not replied

Replies to this message:
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