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Author Topic:   Dinosaur transitional - From carnivore to vegetarian
Brad
Member (Idle past 4787 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 1 of 16 (205432)
05-05-2005 10:18 PM


A new dinosaur that was caught in the act of evolving from carnivore to herbivore has been found. The dinosaur has bones that were obviously used to catch and eat other animals; it also is starting to show bones that would aid in the eating of plants. This seems to be a rather indisputable transitional fossil.
Error
Brad
{Topic promoted from PNT by Adminnemooseus}

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 16 (205436)
05-05-2005 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
05-05-2005 10:18 PM


Are you claiming it is changing from Meat Eating Kind to Grass eating Kind?
But isn't it still dinosaur kind?
This message has been edited by jar, 05-05-2005 09:37 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 16 (205478)
05-06-2005 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
05-05-2005 10:18 PM


Can someone link me to a more technical paper or article for this topic? The cnn article tells you next to no useful information.
This is a perfect example of why so many people think researchers like us sit on our arses all day making stuff up.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 4 of 16 (205486)
05-06-2005 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
05-05-2005 10:37 PM


Are you claiming it is changing from Meat Eating Kind to Grass eating Kind?
But isn't it still dinosaur kind?
oh jar, what am i gonna do with you?
(it should be noted also that this dinosaur is transitional in another way. it is yet another avian dinosaur)

אָרַח

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meshuggahcynic
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 16 (205506)
05-06-2005 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by coffee_addict
05-06-2005 2:03 AM


These are the first two that I found that had a bit more "teeth" to them ...
Dinosaur embraced vegetarianism | Nature
quote:
The dentary teeth share several features with the teeth of other
therizinosauroids (Fig. 2). Similarities include posteriorly small,
lanceolate and basally constricted crowns that become taller anteriorly,
as well as the presence of inflated, circular roots.
Page not found – Utah Geological Survey
This is going to put a big crimp into the whole All things were vegetarian, until the fall discussions.

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 16 (205544)
05-06-2005 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by meshuggahcynic
05-06-2005 4:55 AM


Welcome to EvC
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 16 (205820)
05-07-2005 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by arachnophilia
05-06-2005 2:37 AM


quote:
it should be noted also that this dinosaur is transitional in another way. it is yet another avian dinosaur
Dinosaur, yes.
Avian, unlikely. Sister to birds, probably. But us BAND people still waiting for the pre-Archaeopteryx raptor.
And dinosaur depictions look more and more like chickens these days... Where have all the terrible lizards gone?

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 8 of 16 (205855)
05-07-2005 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Andya Primanda
05-07-2005 8:49 AM


Dino != lizard && reptile

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 9 of 16 (205937)
05-07-2005 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Andya Primanda
05-07-2005 8:49 AM


And dinosaur depictions look more and more like chickens these days... Where have all the terrible lizards gone?
because biologists have recognized that the whole order is actually transitional. that, and we keep finding dinosaurs that have feathers, like this one.
Dinosaur, yes.
Avian, unlikely
avain dinosaurs are what we call the whole group dinosaurs that exhibit avian features, such as feathers. there's at least a dozen of them, probably more.
Sister to birds, probably. But us BAND people still waiting for the pre-Archaeopteryx raptor.
well, you might be looking at it. when was this one around?
sister, probably. evolution very rarely makes a direct path. this one's just closer to the common ancestor in the amily tree than modern birds.

אָרַח

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 10 of 16 (205938)
05-07-2005 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by arachnophilia
05-07-2005 7:19 PM


But the author admitted on NPR yesterday that the thing's teeth could eat lizards. That was enough for me. I'm back to the number of digits on the fish limb and what counts for/as a sauroid form. Seems like the information is still buried in the 1900s to me.

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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 11 of 16 (206031)
05-08-2005 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Andya Primanda
05-07-2005 8:49 AM


Why would you need to find a pre-Archie 'raptor anyways? Archaeopteryx doesn't have any exclusively avian synapomorphies (sp?), which means that it probably isn't a bird.

Proudly attempting to Google-Bomb Kent Hovind's website
Lying Dumbass

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 16 (206060)
05-08-2005 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Cthulhu
05-08-2005 12:43 AM


Why, to fill the gap of Archy's ancestor of course!
Surely you don't think those raptors born 50 million years after Archaeopteryx were her ancestors? To convert me from BAND to dino-bird, I would only need one evidence of the existence of raptors before Archy.
Four-Wings, Microraptor gui came close, but still younger than Archy.

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Cthulhu
Member (Idle past 5852 days)
Posts: 273
From: Roe Dyelin
Joined: 09-09-2003


Message 13 of 16 (206242)
05-08-2005 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Andya Primanda
05-08-2005 5:14 AM


Archie's not a bird anyways, so why bother finding its ancestor?

I have no signature.

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 14 of 16 (206261)
05-08-2005 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Cthulhu
05-08-2005 8:50 PM


Who knows?
Maybe the "snake like" creature (the author's own word) did not use so-called protofeathers for heat or as a exapatation at all but instead it wore down it's teeth chomping on turtles towards the softshell kind spreading it's "wings" on the water surface so as to entice turtles up the water column and thus become prey.
There are so many possibilities for looking into relations, but we popularly tend not to explore them because our feelings get the better of our lack of observations of the modern day relative forms.

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Palaeos
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 16 (214065)
06-03-2005 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Andya Primanda
05-07-2005 8:49 AM


More on Falcarius utahensis
quote:
And dinosaur depictions look more and more like chickens these days... Where have all the terrible lizards gone?
Eh, that's the idea now. Generally all the maniraptorians are portrayed with feathers now, that group includes genera such as Velociraptor and Archaeopteryx and Tyrannosaurus. However its unlikely IMHO, that anything over a few tons had feathers, since most of those particular dinosaurs had them only for insulation purposes due to their small size.
As for this new transitional dinosaur species, here is the official publishing of it for your enjoyment:
Link is fixed:
Click here for PDF of paper
Here is also a picture of the reassembled skeleton Utah State Paleontologist James Kirkland.
This message has been edited by Palaeos, 06-03-2005 11:17 PM

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