Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?

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This thread focused on whether Christians would accept a Muslim President. I answered that if that's the way the country voted, there would be no choice but to accept it, but went on to add that it would be a very bad sign for the health of the country, which I would take as God's judgment against us, which we richly deserve in my view.

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I don't know whether I share the pessimism. I think that a Muslim being elected president would show that this country is finally mature enough to look beyond the usual stereotypes.

I meant a Christian regime. So you propose a government that doesn't attempt to legislate morality, push prayer in schools, make decisions based on faith, etc.? I don't know about that -- it's the same concept, the times have just chanced, everything is more internationalized, we are more connected to different people, populations are more aware and knowledgeable regarding the different cultures around the world.I feel that the concept still holds true though. Sure it is. Think basic... You don't want Muslims imposing moral superiority and values that you don't agree with on you; I don't want Christians imposing moral superiority and values that I don't agree with on me. What's the difference? Remember, the world doesn't agree on which God is THE God. Opinions are fine. I encourage opinion. Since (at least for now) our government isn't wholly Christian-based, people still have the right to express themselves openly -- gay, straight, pro-life, pro-choice, porn, church, muslim, jewish, etc. No, I mean everyone. I suppose most importantly would be fundamentalists of any religion, but everyone can benefit from having an all-encompassing worldview. Surely it would be nice if Al-Qaeda leaders took a step back and considered what would be good for the planet apart from the skewed view of their religion.No one is "wrong" by realizing their efforts might be better served through more peaceful means. The Christian fundies aren't "wrong" either. They're entitled to believe whatever they choose -- that doesn't mean our government should be run as such. Good idea, let's just make this officially United States of Christian American (USCA) and the official national religion will be Christianity. Anyone who isn't a Christian will immediately be deported. All television (even private cable & satellite networks) censored for morality. The topic is: Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?After our discussion, my answer is "NO!" and/or "AHHH!!!"

Ah yes, the politically correct multiculturalist delusion of our time, exactly the attitude that will usher in what I'm predicting. Rather reminiscent of the serpent's assurance to Eve: "If you eat of it you will not surely die."

If looking past the differences in other people to see the similarities, and respecting other people even when their beliefs differ from one's own is "multiculturalist" and "politically correct", then that is a standard to which I aspire.

[sarcasm]Hmm, I just love it when Christians say us Muslims are poised to rule the world... because if I talk to fellow Muslims they say they were oppressed by the US. So Faith, if we are prophesized to rule the world, there's nothing you can do about it, right? Just take your seat and prepare a hijab, you'll need it... [/sarcasm]But anyway. In the hypothetical question of a Muslim president elected democratically, the question of whether the US will turn Taliban is irrelevant. The Muslim president, even if s/he is a hardline fundamnetalist, would still face a basically secular constitution and system, and s/he has to work within that system. I don't know about US politics much but I suppose you have some kind of impeachment system that can punish a president whose actions are inconstitutional?

Exactly why having fundie Christians shaping policy is a bad idea.

It's incredible that you know exactly what I'm getting at prophex. I mean, I just love watching people getting steaming platefulls of their asses handed to them on internet debate forums. /note the sarcasm.
Seriously, I am not able to post on the weekend so this sort of jumped out of hand. But my point in my last post was to get a response OTHER then what I posted. That was an expected response, now let's get deeper. After we talked about this for a few post I planned to take this in the direction of, what would a religious conservative feel would be better, every god in office, or no god in office? But like I said, this got out of hand way to fast. This wasn't intended to be a trap, my post was intended to 'spring the trap' because I felt it was keeping many people from responding.
Brad

Hello, Andya.You forget, religious fundamentalists do not understand the concept of separation of church and state. So it is very understandable that they would fear someone of a different religion taking charge of the state.Also, most political conservatives seem to believe in mindlessly following a single leader -- they don't understand the concept of constitutional checks and balances.All in all, it is understandable that someone like Faith would fear the idea of a Muslim becoming president of the US.But, like you, I have the utmost confidence in the utter hypocrisy of the religious right. Should a Muslim be elected president and try to have the state sanction Islam, the conservatives would immediately embrace the concept of church and state. And I bet the ACLU would suddenly be awash in new Christian members.

But you are missing the point. This is not about people, it's about ideas, beliefs, ideologies. One can certainly respect people no matter what they believe, but if they believe that you should be dead because you refuse to accept their ideology, then respecting them may not sanely include trusting them very far.

If it is their religion that is "oppressed" then that complaint is already a suggestion that Islam and the US are at odds, don't you think? However, I'm well aware that the average Muslim may have no aspirations to take over the world, because their religion is a matter of daily life for them more than an overriding ideology. Nevertheless the writings of Islam give plenty of inspiration for zealots who want to fulfill everything they understand Allah desires of them, the major goal being subjugating the world to Allah. There are also different ways "jihad" is interpreted by different Muslims, but the fact is that the interpretation of violence against the infidel has a long history and is quite orthodox. Depends. I would hope the West would wake up and God would revive our Christian heritage in us but if that doesn't happen, yes, that's what I already suggested may certainly occur. But there's no prophecy, just my speculations concerning possibilities based on my knowledge of the Bible and observations of the reign of political correctness which inhibits our ability to defend ourselves. Sure, it is possible to get a Muslim president who serves the Constitution fairly, either from a less zealous religious spirit or from a pragmatic attitude, but Islam itself promotes a strong sense of allegiance to Islam that refuses allegiance to any nation. The problem would be in the blindness of the American public to this tendency in the religion, or the growth of a pro-Islam attitude in the nation, or the advantage given to the zealous Islamists by such a political situation.

Hi Faith I think that's a bit of a dangerous suggestion. It seems to be the political class of the US who want to make Muslims suffer, rather than vice versa. There are plenty of Muslims who are quite as patriotic to the US as Christians are. I don't think that Islam prevents one from being a good US citizen. For example there is the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a civic rights organization operated by American citizens. These people are concerned with documenting and trying to prevent "unreasonable arrests, detentions, searches/seizures and interrogations". They aren't trying to take over the country, and certainly aren't trying to kill anybody. All they are doing is trying to hold up the US constitution for all of its citizens regardless of religion.Anyway, i thought you would enjoy the link.Best wishes,Mick

Actually, I think that you are missing the point. We aren't talking about someone who believes that I should be dead because I don't accept their ideology. We're talking about someone running for president who happens to be a Muslim.

Exactly why America may very well be conquered by Islam. You and Chiroptera demonstrate exactly the fertile ground for it. Then you can enjoy fundie Muslim rule without threat of interference from us evil fundie Christians.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-06-2005 02:16 PM

How naive you are.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-06-2005 02:16 PM

Anybody who would refer to CAIR as a "civil rights organization" is deluded in exactly the way I'm saying will subjugate the US to Islam. CAIR is the most clever propaganda organization for violent jihadists there is. Even moderate pro-Muslim groups know CAIR is a front.This message has been edited by Faith, 06-06-2005 02:17 PM