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Author | Topic: homosexuality | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You know, there's a big difference between Creationists and, um, let's call our group, "science-minded people". If a Creationist is debating for the cause, it doesn't matter too much to most other Creationists if the arguments are presented poorly, or if the information is inaccurate, or if anything else which is presented is of poor quality. What matters is that there is another Creationist and they are spouting forth something that sounds kinda good. Even if one Creationist doesn't agree with another, they won't really be seen contradicting each other very much. We have seen this to pretty much be the case on this message board. OTOH, the Science-minded folks analyze and correct each other's arguments all the time, and the grown-up people actually welcome the correction and will generally recognize when they are out of their element or don't know something. In this regard, nos, you are much more like the Creationist in that you tend to disregard all correction and analysis no matter who it comes from. It seems that you would rather feel right than learn the truth.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Yeah, I should. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by schrafinator:
Look, all I am gently telling you is that you are a loose cannon rather frequently, and you frequently debate just as poorly as the Creationists you deplore. Who said that I was debating them? They don't so why bother. I and others have offered advice about how you could be taken more seriously, but you either make excuses, blame others, or ignore the comments. You can choose to take honest critique and learn and grow, or you can continue to do damage to the cause. It's your choice. Blame others?
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: They were never meant to be funny. Go to his site and see just how much he demeans women and then come back and defend him.
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RedVento Inactive Member |
quote: Right, the number that survie to reproduce to survive. So if there are 1 million eggs, and 10% of them survive.. that is 100,000 that can go on to reproduce. If the same survivability rate is applied to a human then one in 10 of her children will live, over 10 years. That has no bearing on the species?
quote: Ok that made me laugh pretty hard becuase I just imagined myself doing it... But since dogs and us do get our social status in the same way my point still stands.. "Leg humping. Nearly all dogs at some time in their lives show a little too much interest in people's legs. It's an unpleasant habit that's not only confined to male dogs. Most dogs either outgrow it or give it up once they've been neutered. Some dogs, however, do it all the time. It's not about sex, it's about power. Dogs who hump people's legs are saying "I'm higher on the totem pole than you," explains Jeff Nichol, D.V.M, a veterinarian and newspaper columnist in Albuquerque, New Mexico." This is from Bbrescue.org btw.
quote: Ok cool, I'll check em out, I like learning new things
quote: I was pretty clear when I said I hadn't come across anything to show me I was wrong.. If you have something please share it, I am quite willing to learn new things and my opinions are not set in stone
quote: When you put it that way I can't disagree. I am going to check that link, I love reading interesting arguments.. My friends tell me I should have become a lawyer rather than a Stock Broker since I love to argue. Red
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RedVento Inactive Member |
quote: Probably, or the act of orgasm is just so draining that all that can be done afterwords is looks for a snack and a place to take a nap.
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RedVento Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]
Pretty much how it works with me...
I think Red has fallen under the spell of thinking that non-human animals are somehow fundamentally different than human animals. [/B][/QUOTE] Actually I think they are fundamantally the same as us. However there are some major differences between MOST humans and other animals, such as cognative thought process. However sex I think is all rooted in the same mechanism, need to procreate. How often that gets done is different from species to species. Also I am quite content with the possibility that my argument is totally off base. If I am way off just show me and I will change my thinking to take in the new facts
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I don't agree. There are certainly differences in brain-power, and in how we direct that brain-power, and in our dependence upon it. I just don't find it to be a major difference. Primatologist studying communication among apes for ex. have the problem of distinguishing between human comunication and chimp comunication. Every time someone defines a line, someone else finds a chimp that crosses it. They aren't all that different from other mammals and we aren't much differenct from them. We're just arrogant about our big heads.
quote: What Schraf and I have been arguing is that there is a lot of behavior and biology that does not make sense purely in the context of procreation. Or, maybe it would be better to say that the biology and behaviors associated with sex have been co-opted for other things. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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RedVento Inactive Member |
quote: Oh definetly, I will not disagree with you there. And I would agree with your feelings of sex and social bonding. I do think that it is all part of procreation though, and is linked to the continued survivability of the species. Since we procreate so much less than other species I am inclined to believe that sex, like you and schaf propose, does help with social bonding to keep social units together to help the groups chances of survival. I guess what I am pointing to in a really slow, drawn out, somewhat meandering manner is that unlike other animals humans have evolved to such a point that we no longer have small family units that are bonded. We are really a global community.. In that context there is no argument against homosexuality(hmm is it bad debat form to defeat your own argument?) since the individuals are so far removed from the survivability of the whole. I'm not sure if it was you and Schafs comments alone that made changed my mind or me just being confused... but alas the damage is done. (sarcasm)Thanks John and Schaf, because of your comments I've been forced to think out the entire argument and change my mind... (/sarcasm) Red Damn html formatting won't let me be creative with my fake html tags... [This message has been edited by RedVento, 11-04-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: This is a strategy I highly recommend.
quote: Bad debate form... ? Only in competition, but that is a game. Good politics.... wait... no... bad politics....
quote: Drat....!!! Perhaps you were trying to do this: <sarcasm>....</sarcasm> ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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RedVento Inactive Member |
quote: Hey you cheated! I don't know the < and > codes...well now I do.. except I will most likely foget them... Btw there is a big article about gay sheep on MSN today so I can add that to my list of homosexual animals. Link here ... MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News Red PS However I am still sure about dogs not having homosexual tendencies .
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nos482:
[B]Originally posted by schrafinator: Look, all I am gently telling you is that you are a loose cannon rather frequently, and you frequently debate just as poorly as the Creationists you deplore.
quote: This is a moderated debate board. It's what we do here. If you don't want to debate within the guidelines (I suggest you read them) then you can head to the Free For All.
quote: Actually, TB, TC, and several others do a pretty good job of debating in good faith. What we are trying to do here at EvC forum which is different from most of the other on-line discussion boards on this subject is to have a civilized exchange of ideas. We want to raise the level of discourse above the usual abrasive, insulting, flame-happy garbage that one finds on such boards. We have a vision of a better place with more interesting and thoughful discussion. You are not doing a very good job of contributing to this vision. What you do mostly is take thoughtless, often content-less, pot shots at people. This is extremely annoying and simply childish and stupid. It adds nothing to the discussion, actually diminishes it, and is a waste of web space.
quote: quote: You blame others for your own poor behavior. You did it in this very reply to me; you justified your poor debating with Creationists by saying that Creationists don't debate, so why should you bother? Thus, it's the Creationist's fault that you do not debate well.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nos482:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator: [b]Hey John, Ignore the childish behavior. Hey Nos, Grow the &*#% up. You are the only one who thinks your "bonk" comments are funny. Allison[/QUOTE] quote: I went to his site. I don't think he demeans women. I think that the title to the essay you are referring to was chosen to get people to read it. While I do not agree with John about all of his ideas regarding consent laws, I did not think it demeaning towards women. Idealistic and rather naive WRT the status of women (i.e. his scenario would only work if girls and women actually had equal status in our culture, and if female sexuality was celebrated rather than fetishized/oppressed), but not demeaning. The gaming art-style picture is kind of silly and adolescent, but not demeaning. Can you perhaps point me to something at his site that I am missing? [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-06-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I say is IS about sex, AND about power. If it were just about power, then why the sexual actions?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I really don't understand the argument. Maybe, try again? I confused.
quote: I am confused again. Maybe you meant to say "... dogs and us DO NOT get our ....."
quote: I understand that this is the party line, but I don't completely buy it, for reasons I've stated. Also, all respect due, that the man is a vet does not make him an authority on animal behavior, just as being a doctor does not make one understand people. I once knew a vet who threw a fit because an injured cat-- my injured cat-- scratched him... go figure. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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