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Author Topic:   What is GOD?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 1 of 97 (215294)
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


I ask the above question because it is profoundly disturbing to me that the many different people who all claim access to god as a consequence of their experiences consider that they know that they have really determined that they have found the one true god and cannot be wrong.Since their are many POV's concerning the method or lack thereof for arrival at the "truth of god" here I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct. It would also be intersting if we could flesh out why they think that other people's god is false.
I would like to ask this question also to see why there are so many different versions of god.This would likely be best under faith and belief.

Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 97 (215310)
06-08-2005 11:01 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 97 (215316)
06-08-2005 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


What's a "POV"?

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 4 of 97 (215317)
06-08-2005 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by robinrohan
06-08-2005 11:10 AM


Point of view

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 97 (215320)
06-08-2005 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


Since their are many POV's concerning the method or lack thereof for arrival at the "truth of god" here I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct.
The method of arriving at the truth of God?
Do you mean like one person will say you have to pray, and somebody else will say you have to read the Bible or the Koran, and then somebody else, such as a Deist, will say you have to study nature?
Is that what you're talking about?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 97 (215332)
06-08-2005 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


What is God? Is "What" an absolute definition?
Old Chap writes:
I ask the above question because it is profoundly disturbing to me that the many different people who all claim access to god as a consequence of their experiences consider that they know that they have really determined that they have found the one true god and cannot be wrong.Since their are many POV's concerning the method or lack thereof for arrival at the "truth of god" here I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct. It would also be interesting if we could flesh out why they think that other people's god is false.
Sidelined, how goes the dance,old chap? You say that it disturbs you that believers in general claim that they know a Supreme and absolute truth and cannot be wrong. Right?
One of the prerequisites for belief in an absolute truth is the conviction that "wrong" is not an option.
It seems to me, then, that the issue that disturbs you is the fact that believers never allow relativistic thinking to get very far in their belief. To me, this must mean that you are quite open to all types of persuasion and further knowledge of the definitions of God and of "The" Truth. Perhaps, further, you really can't see the possibility of such a narrow exclusionary viewpoint.
How is my analysis so far?
To break it down another way, you say that "I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct."
In essence, you are stating that you are challenging the idea of an absolute truth POV. You would rather that all POV's be equally relative to the individual. So...in other words, your source of truth is the individual human. For you, it is you. For me, it should be limited to me and my POV. This bothers me because my concept of truth is inclusive to everyone. One cannot have a drum and bugle corps with everyone marching to their own beat!
sidelined writes:
I would like to ask this question also to see why there are so many different versions of god.
Human nature is a mystery, is it not? It all goes back to one of my repetitive questions:
Did man imagine all concepts of belief initially or is there one or more Creators who in fact imagined us into existance initially?? In other words, what is the original source of creation/wisdom? Is this source defined as the evolutionary understanding of the human animal or is there a higher mystical and omnipotant source??
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-08-2005 10:45 AM
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-08-2005 10:51 AM

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Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 712
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 7 of 97 (215403)
06-08-2005 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


Why so many religions?
Since I've read this, I've always thought these thoughts were right on...
Crossing the Threshold of Hope writes:
interviewer writes:
WHY SO MANY RELIGIONS?
But if God who is in heaven-and who saved and continues to save the world-is One and only One and is He who has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, why has He allowed so many religions to exist?
Why did He make the search for the truth so arduous, in the midst of a forest of rituals, of beliefs, of revelations, of faiths which have always thrived-and still do today-throughout the world?
Pope John Paul II writes:
You speak of many religions. Instead I will attempt to show the common fundamental element and the common root of these religions.
The Council defined the relationship of the Church to non-Christian religions in a specific document that begins with the words "Nostra aetate" ("In our time"). It is a concise and yet very rich document that authentically hands on the Tradition, faithful to the thought of the earliest Fathers of the Church...
more here: Catholic.net - Catholics on the net

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 8 of 97 (215452)
06-08-2005 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by robinrohan
06-08-2005 11:22 AM


robinrohan
Do you mean like one person will say you have to pray, and somebody else will say you have to read the Bible or the Koran, and then somebody else, such as a Deist, will say you have to study nature?
The question is "what is GOD?". There are many POV's as you list here concerning the means by which GOD is arrived at for the individual.I am concerned with the actual GOD that is the core of all these POV's.
Since much fuss and violence breaks out worldwide and even locally among indiviiduals within churches or groups of common belief it puzzles me that the MAIN player is not actually specified as other than an immaterial,invisible unknowable entity{This is a contradiction IMO} and yet is somehow accesible to being known though means which seem vague at best.
What is GOD?What are the attributes of GOD that convince you that you are so correct in your evaluation of this entity you so title? It would also be enlightening,I think, to understand why other people would be so thouroghly convinced of the validity of their own judgement on GOD even when others are just as convinced of a diametrically opposed POV. I am wanting to know what the cause of ignorance is that lends to so much of society a dispensation towards aggresive tendencies when it comes to GOD.
As an atheist it is puzzling to me that so much talk goes into the constant droning on by the masses that GOD is love,GOD is this,GOD is that,etc. etc.. while the human agenda is what actually plays out through the course of individuals lives in their relations to others.
I suppose it is the creeping of age and the slow process of aching bones beginning to remind me of my mortality that lends me to this excercise in debate,for I do really concern myself with what my children must attend to as a consequence of the actions of others.Also,I shall instill in them tolerance of and appreciation for differences among people while still giving them a proper sense of when imbalance is arriving on the scene within their interactions with others.
I am not sure this makes things much clearer but as the posts accumulate perhaps I can better narrow the inquiry to its proper place.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Douglas Adams

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 9 of 97 (215526)
06-08-2005 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by sidelined
06-08-2005 7:18 PM


What is GOD?What are the attributes of GOD that convince you that you are so correct in your evaluation of this entity you so title?
God is like infinity or perfection: an extrapolation based on what we do know. He is the source of reality and life and all things find their completion in Him. Think of something good or bright or truthful, and He is that to the infinite degree.
Goodness, truth, light, love, and life are all the positives and they come in one package. They are all tied together in Him. We can feel the difference between love and hate, truth and lies. If we hate or lie, we don't know Him.
As an atheist it is puzzling to me that so much talk goes into the constant droning on by the masses that GOD is love,GOD is this,GOD is that,etc. etc.. while the human agenda is what actually plays out through the course of individuals lives in their relations to others.
The earth will never be in short supply of hypocrites. If you are looking for the truth about any matter, the majority opinion is not the best place to start. Some philosopher dude once said something to the effect, "If you happen to find yourself in the majority, take a step back and re-assess your position."
There are many POV's as you list here concerning the means by which GOD is arrived at for the individual.I am concerned with the actual GOD that is the core of all these POV's.
I had a talk with my one atheist friend a couple of days ago and we realized that she could not begin to believe in God because she did not first believe in the reality of good or evil. To know the truth about God, you must first believe in Truth and Good. The three go together.
A minority of people throughout the ages in all religions have believed in truth and goodness and sought these things out while a majority of people have sought to gratify their desires with material possession or power. Jesus came to teach what those who believe in and seek Good already knew. His sheep listen to His voice. He embodied all of the positives and as such he WAS God.
A few people have real faith. Many more have religion. And still others use the religious crowd to screw everyone over.
BTW, I love that signature quote... cracks me up...

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Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by dsv, posted 06-09-2005 12:44 AM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 11 by lfen, posted 06-09-2005 12:58 AM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 10 of 97 (215533)
06-09-2005 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hangdawg13
06-08-2005 11:56 PM


Hangdawwwwg writes:
God is like infinity or perfection: an extrapolation based on what we do know. He is the source of reality and life and all things find their completion in Him. Think of something good or bright or truthful, and He is that to the infinite degree.
Goodness, truth, light, love, and life are all the positives and they come in one package. They are all tied together in Him. We can feel the difference between love and hate, truth and lies. If we hate or lie, we don't know Him.
These aren't really what I would call "attributes" -- they're abstract concepts. You're not answering the question "What is GOD?" There has been no shortage of vague abstraction answers to the question here on the forum.
What I would like to know is what this God actually IS. I assume in some level of consciousness, some dimension, some brane (M Theory anyone? ), in some universe, there must be this God. As they say, "If one is, one must be."
I'd like to hear your explanation of that God, not necessarily the physical per-se but the real description.
And still others use the religious crowd to screw everyone over.
*cough*Bush*cough*

"Look, the Bible is VERY clear. [...] It warns repeatedly against believing what the 'world' says, what the 'wise' of the world, the philosophers or thinkers of the world say." -- Faith

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Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 11 of 97 (215536)
06-09-2005 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hangdawg13
06-08-2005 11:56 PM


BTW, I love that signature quote... cracks me up...
Hangdawg,
It's one of Douglas Adams' funniest quotes but the guy was a genius. You have read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy haven't you?
lfen

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 12 of 97 (215541)
06-09-2005 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by lfen
06-09-2005 12:58 AM


You have read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy haven't you?
Yup, loved it... haven't seen the movie yet though.

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 13 of 97 (215550)
06-09-2005 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by dsv
06-09-2005 12:44 AM


These aren't really what I would call "attributes" -- they're abstract concepts. You're not answering the question "What is GOD?"
God IS an abstract concept. That's the answer.
What I would like to know is what this God actually IS.
Oh.... He's made of gold. Pure gold. Sounds absurd doesn't it?
I assume in some level of consciousness, some dimension, some brane (M Theory anyone? ), in some universe, there must be this God.
Nope. Its all in Him, not vice versa. I have a problem with a creation sustaining its creator.
I'd like to hear your explanation of that God, not necessarily the physical per-se but the real description.
He looks like a cross between a galactic fish and an african horny toad. And like I said, He's made of Gold... Pure solid Gold.
Naturalists believe only the physical is real. If you are to understand God, you must begin to believe in the reality of the abstract concepts, which you are forced to deal with on a regular basis.
If the entire physical world is a computer matrix, and you can touch and see material objects, you will be convinced they are real. Even if you discover that a car is goverened by lines of code, it still looks and feels like a car. Its still real. The reality of the code behind the car doesn't take away from the reality of the car itself.
Feelings and experiences of abstract concepts may be goverened by physical actions just as the car was goverened by lines of code, but these immaterial things are still felt and are still real.
The naturalist looks at the physical, forgets the abstract, and concludes that its all an illusion caused by billions of calculations per second. I disagree.

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lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 14 of 97 (215553)
06-09-2005 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Hangdawg13
06-09-2005 1:39 AM


Platonist?
Hangdawg,
Naturalists believe only the physical is real. If you are to understand God, you must begin to believe in the reality of the abstract concepts, which you are forced to deal with on a regular basis.
You seem to be still working on a Platonic approach to the "supernatural"?
The naturalist looks at the physical, forgets the abstract, and concludes that its all an illusion caused by billions of calculations per second. I disagree.
Perhaps because I've never seen The Matrix I'm not following your analogy. Your statement doesn't make sense to me. What are you asserting?
lfen

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dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 15 of 97 (215556)
06-09-2005 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Hangdawg13
06-09-2005 1:39 AM


Well, from your sarcasm I guess you took my reply as less than genuine. I was being serious.
God IS an abstract concept. That's the answer.
Agreed.
Nope. Its all in Him, not vice versa. I have a problem with a creation sustaining its creator.
And a creation can't know its creator? Why not? The bible tells us specifically to know him, why can't we really know him?
If the entire physical world is a computer matrix, and you can touch and see material objects, you will be convinced they are real. Even if you discover that a car is goverened by lines of code, it still looks and feels like a car. Its still real. The reality of the code behind the car doesn't take away from the reality of the car itself.
If the entire physical world is a computer matrix it ceases to be a physical world. In the same respect, I'd want to know who or what programmed this world. If someone told me love and truth programmed the matrix, I'd probably be just as skeptical.

This message is a reply to:
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