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Author Topic:   Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 308 (213767)
06-03-2005 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Percy
06-01-2005 2:50 PM


quote:
I think the OP needs responses from the religious right before a discussion can develop. How would this segment of the country feel about a President who prayed three times daily toward Mecca? Who uttered phrases in public like, "Allah be praised!" Who attended mosque?
It's five times a day sir.
And although I'm not a US citizen, if there ever be a Muslim US president I'm sure the world will be a very different place. And it will show that the US [if the Muslim president is democratically elected, and assuming he is elected because of competence, not some strange circumstances such as the majority of the US population convereted to Islam or something] truly achieve an ideal secularized democracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Percy, posted 06-01-2005 2:50 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-03-2005 10:25 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 308 (214625)
06-06-2005 7:24 AM


A Muslim president for the US
[sarcasm]
Hmm, I just love it when Christians say us Muslims are poised to rule the world... because if I talk to fellow Muslims they say they were oppressed by the US. So Faith, if we are prophesized to rule the world, there's nothing you can do about it, right? Just take your seat and prepare a hijab, you'll need it...
[/sarcasm]
But anyway. In the hypothetical question of a Muslim president elected democratically, the question of whether the US will turn Taliban is irrelevant. The Muslim president, even if s/he is a hardline fundamnetalist, would still face a basically secular constitution and system, and s/he has to work within that system. I don't know about US politics much but I suppose you have some kind of impeachment system that can punish a president whose actions are inconstitutional?

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Chiroptera, posted 06-06-2005 11:45 AM Andya Primanda has not replied
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 06-06-2005 1:53 PM Andya Primanda has replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 285 of 308 (215598)
06-09-2005 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
06-06-2005 1:53 PM


Re: A Muslim president for the US
Faith,
quote:
If it is their religion that is "oppressed" then that complaint is already a suggestion that Islam and the US are at odds, don't you think? However, I'm well aware that the average Muslim may have no aspirations to take over the world, because their religion is a matter of daily life for them more than an overriding ideology. Nevertheless the writings of Islam give plenty of inspiration for zealots who want to fulfill everything they understand Allah desires of them, the major goal being subjugating the world to Allah. There are also different ways "jihad" is interpreted by different Muslims, but the fact is that the interpretation of violence against the infidel has a long history and is quite orthodox.
One rule when discussing something with those with a different religion is to never assume you know what they believe more than they did.
I acknowledge that you were being careful with your words, and directly pointing at zealots using Islamic teachings as an excuse for their agenda. But I must correct you on the interpretation of jihad. The rule for the use of violence in Islam is for self-defense. The Qur'an does encourage Muslims to strike back when persecuted, but does not endorse unprovoked aggression.
Of course historically there has been Muslim aggressors. But these were politically motivated (you know, people, sometimes they're hungry for land and riches), and sometimes they used religion to support and justify their actions. Christian kingdoms also do this in the past.
quote:
Sure, it is possible to get a Muslim president who serves the Constitution fairly, either from a less zealous religious spirit or from a pragmatic attitude, but Islam itself promotes a strong sense of allegiance to Islam that refuses allegiance to any nation. The problem would be in the blindness of the American public to this tendency in the religion, or the growth of a pro-Islam attitude in the nation, or the advantage given to the zealous Islamists by such a political situation.
I'm not concerned with the issue of American nationalism since I'm not a US citizen. Well you know better what makes someone a president in the US. You might know why more people choose GW Bush than John Kerry. Now just imagine a scenario where a similar victory by a Muslim candidate is possible. Try to think of circumstances that can make this happen. Change in religious composition? Competence of the candidate? Public opinion becomes more positive to Muslims?
Also, it is unfortunate that the opening post specifies a Muslim president scenario. I'd like to expand that question. What will happen if:
1. a Jew, or
2. a Hindu, or
3. an atheist
gets elected as the US President?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 06-06-2005 1:53 PM Faith has not replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 308 (215609)
06-09-2005 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Faith
06-07-2005 7:03 PM


Re: Muslim moderates
quote:
The problem with Islam is in its holy books and its history. However moderate Muslims may in fact be, as long as the Koran is their guide to any great extent they are being conditioned against the values of the West. To what extent can a Muslim truly respect and incorporate our Constitutional values -- freedom, equality, democratic politics? The doctrines of Islam could not be more opposed to them. It must be difficult to seek the freedoms of the West when you are tied to a Muslim mindset.
This has gone off-topic, with the originator if the thread nowhere to be seen, but I believe I have to correct you on this--
Freedom: The Qur'an respects freedom and rights, including women's rights and freedom of religion. It has limits though.
Equality: The Qur'an declares all humankind is equal, and our merits are judged through our actions.
Democratic politics:--The Qur'an says nothing on this, but it leans a bit towards theocracy. But the prescribed laws are few, and it leaves a lot of things to be decided by humans, of which democracy is IMO a possibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 06-07-2005 7:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Faith, posted 06-09-2005 12:01 PM Andya Primanda has not replied

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