The third rule of war

rule #4: We do not let the memories of soldiers' sacrifices be used to justify poor decisions by policy makers including the very wars they may have died in.rule #5: We make sure not to debase our reason and resort to hyperbolic and stock dilemma commentary such as... ... which not only leads us needlessly into giving up our freedoms to tyrants but also to having to face the first rule of war.I have no idea if that was a real letter or not. That I just heard that opening line on M*A*S*H* a week ago makes me wonder, but regardless IRAQ HAD NOTING TO DO WITH 9/11 OR AL-QAIDA!!! We STRENGTHENED ZARQAWI'S PRESENCE IN IRAQ and GAVE AQ A NEW PLATFORM TO ATTACK US TROOPS! Thus the message was as phony as a 3 dollar bill.While I agree that... now that we are in... we must see the job through in Iraq, that does not in any way justify us having gone there in the first place. If this letter was a private moment of reflection from a soldier to a parent, then so be it. That it is apparently being used... by you... to push a belief that we only have two choices: follow Bush or die like sheep, is simply using the memory of dead soldiers for your own advantage.Shame on you.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

1) Asymmetrical warfare means that there is no such thing as a frontline, and so you can find yourself attacked at home just the same if you have troops in "their country" or not.This point was made by Rumsfeld early on, I believe before 9/11, when he was discussing the future of the military. I actually agreed with Rumsfeld on many points of criticism he had regarding Clinton's handling of the military. Now it seems I am a radical for believing Republicans were right? Hmmm.2) Iraq was not in any position to get over here, much less be over here, so much the less "fight us" over here. Afghanistan makes sense, Iraq did not at the time and still does not (given your rationale). The only reason we have to be there now is to make sure it doesn't get even worse, since we screwed the whole nation.3) I'm glad to see you didn't bother trying to defend your tacky use of a dead soldier to further your own political beliefs. I'm disappointed to see you didn't make an apology.This message has been edited by holmes, 06-09-2005 03:53 PM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I found it easy at the time, having read history on the area as well as public information regarding the issues at hand. This included some info from top US intelligence people who were critical of statements being made by the Bush administration.It has since become impossible to figure out except by those who refuse to acknowledge reality. Bush himself has admitted mistakes were made, and that means he and his crew made them, not his opponents.The real question at this point is why haven't you figured things out by now? Hindsight is 20/20 unless you have taken the term literally and jammed your head up your... But performance and intellectual ability and even principles, can't guarantee a victory. We saw this with the 2004 election. A sound victory in debates got spun as a reason to despise and doubt the victor, and traditional conservative principles were spun to be weak hippy pacifist tripe.In any case, these short bursts have done nothing to either suggest you have things figured correctly, nor make up for having used a dead soldier for your own political ends. Then again you callously use the tragic murder of thousands for your own ends within your avatar so I guess it is just par for the course.Too bad about them facts, huh?This message has been edited by holmes, 06-10-2005 11:45 AM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Oh, I was just hoping that was part of the "9/11 changed everything", and we'd never see it happen again. Was that naive of me?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Are you telling me that your affections can be bought so easily? Can't you tell a photo op from a real and credible honoring of troops?By the way, it does sell commercials for Bush, he uses them all the time. The question was not what was possible, it was what is HONORING the troops. Taking people that are serving well and then making them serve more against their will because it is likely they will not want to be there is not honoring them. Is it?Being left dead in an unmarked ditch is a possibility when you enlist, would it then be honoring the troops if Bush saved money by having all our dead get dumped in a giant unmarked ditch? I would not think of speaking for most soldiers. But in any case, assuming it is true, that is sort of sad yet understandable given their situation. Who would want to believe that they are being used as a tool? That's how most soldiers who have been used as tools, including Saddam's own forces early on in his career felt about their commanders.That's not to mention criticisms of the Commander in Chief are generally forced to be kept to a minimum, right? That would not be good for morale and so get squashed.Given that most of the world finds him inept, that counts a bit more than what the soldiers currently feel about him.I never knew a sucker could also be a tool. Very enlightening.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Yes in a way. Self-sacrifice of the kind you are discussing contains a measure of virtue no matter what the cause and so deserves respect for that virtue.However, respect and honor does not mean justification or acceptance of their goals nor their actions. For example many famous generals honored and respected their enemies, almost to the point of reverence despite avidly pursuing and killing them on the battlefield.Also, honoring the troops in general, should not be used by an individual soldier as a cloak for their own actions. Any individual soldier can generally get the benefit of teh doubt, but in reality may have been cowardly a mindless thug a hopeless brainwashed tool or a vicious sadist. They will have to make their case individually to those that come to know them.In this way, one might find soldiers of the third reich who were deserving of the utmost honor and respect, and yet another soldier from the allied side at our most precious victory D-Day who was worth nothing but contempt.While I have heard and seen some things that made me proud of troops in Iraq, I have heard and seen many cases of blatant and ugly ineptitude, ignorance, bigotry, and visciousness. That is not to mention the tales of units and soldiers who were just as much a militant fundamentalist as the terrrosists we are supposed to be fighting.I think this war contains many soldiers on our own side who are not worthy of respect on an individual basis, not to mention the war itself condemned, though the troops in general should still be praised.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)