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Author Topic:   NEWSFLASH: Schools In Georgia (US) Are Allowed To Teach About Creation
Ahmad
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 148 (21543)
11-04-2002 4:19 PM


Darwinism is a theory that is supported for the sake of materialist philosophy. This is the main reason behind the zealotry of Darwinists in countering the criticisms against their theory. For a long time, especially in the Western world, critics against the theory of evolution has been assaulted by several means: media propagated against them, they lost their jobs in schools, courts ruled against teaching theories other than evolution.
But the scientific evidence is not on the evolutionists' side, so they are loosing ground inevitably. In the last few decades, criticism against the Darwinist dogma was raised from every corner in the scientific community. This created a public awareness about the fallacies of the theory of evolution and the evidence for creation. In the last few years, this awareness is having its impacts in the US educational system. The dogmatic ban on teaching "creationism" - the view that life on Earth is the artifact of a Creator - is now questioned and abolished in several states.
The latest crack in the wall of Darwinist dogmatism came from Georgia, one of the southern east states of America. The Guardians News website reports the following:
The board of Georgia's second-largest school district voted Thursday night to give teachers permission to introduce students to varying views about the origin of life, including creationism. The proposal, approved unanimously by the Cobb County school board, says the district believes "discussion of disputed views of academic subjects is a necessary element of providing a balanced education, including the study of the origin of species."...
Supporters, including high school junior Michael Gray, said the board's choice encouraged academic freedom. "I had to do a term paper about evolution and there were just things that I could disprove or have alternate reasons for," said Gray, who attends Pope High School. "I want my brother and sister to be given the option and not told it's the absolute truth."
(1)
The Darwinist establishment is alarmed against this decision. The strange fact is that they are trying to use legal means to stop creationism, not any intellectual effort. As Guardians News reports, Barry Lynn, executive director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State says that they will sue the Cobb County school board. "It would be as if Cobb County were putting up a giant `sue me' sign," he adds. What he misses is the fact he is using the same method used by the infamous Inquisition centuries ago: Trying to defeat a scientific idea by "legal" means.
The Inquisition had failed to protect its dogmas-like the Ptolemaic model of the universe. The Darwinist establishment will fail too, to protect the myth called evolution.
(1) News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's US edition | The Guardian

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by frank, posted 11-04-2002 5:00 PM Ahmad has not replied
 Message 3 by Brian, posted 11-04-2002 6:04 PM Ahmad has not replied
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-05-2002 3:19 AM Ahmad has not replied

frank
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 148 (21546)
11-04-2002 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ahmad
11-04-2002 4:19 PM


Ahmad,
Take a look at the thread starting with "This settles it..."
http://EvC Forum: This settles it.. Never moving down south.. -->EvC Forum: This settles it.. Never moving down south..
Frank
URL added by Adminnemooseus
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-04-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ahmad, posted 11-04-2002 4:19 PM Ahmad has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 3 of 148 (21549)
11-04-2002 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ahmad
11-04-2002 4:19 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Ahmad:
Darwinism is a theory that is supported for the sake of materialist philosophy. This is the main reason behind the zealotry of Darwinists in countering the criticisms against their theory. For a long time, especially in the Western world, critics against the theory of evolution has been assaulted by several means: media propagated against them, they lost their jobs in schools, courts ruled against teaching theories other than evolution.
But the scientific evidence is not on the evolutionists' side, so they are loosing ground inevitably. In the last few decades, criticism against the Darwinist dogma was raised from every corner in the scientific community. This created a public awareness about the fallacies of the theory of evolution and the evidence for creation. In the last few years, this awareness is having its impacts in the US educational system. The dogmatic ban on teaching "creationism" - the view that life on Earth is the artifact of a Creator - is now questioned and abolished in several states.
The latest crack in the wall of Darwinist dogmatism came from Georgia, one of the southern east states of America. The Guardians News website reports the following:
The board of Georgia's second-largest school district voted Thursday night to give teachers permission to introduce students to varying views about the origin of life, including creationism. The proposal, approved unanimously by the Cobb County school board, says the district believes "discussion of disputed views of academic subjects is a necessary element of providing a balanced education, including the study of the origin of species."...
Supporters, including high school junior Michael Gray, said the board's choice encouraged academic freedom. "I had to do a term paper about evolution and there were just things that I could disprove or have alternate reasons for," said Gray, who attends Pope High School. "I want my brother and sister to be given the option and not told it's the absolute truth."
(1)
The Darwinist establishment is alarmed against this decision. The strange fact is that they are trying to use legal means to stop creationism, not any intellectual effort. As Guardians News reports, Barry Lynn, executive director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State says that they will sue the Cobb County school board. "It would be as if Cobb County were putting up a giant `sue me' sign," he adds. What he misses is the fact he is using the same method used by the infamous Inquisition centuries ago: Trying to defeat a scientific idea by "legal" means.
The Inquisition had failed to protect its dogmas-like the Ptolemaic model of the universe. The Darwinist establishment will fail too, to protect the myth called evolution.
(1) News, sport and opinion from the Guardian's US edition | The Guardian

What is the big deal?
I have personally taught creation is various Scottish schools, theres nothing surprising about this.
I have taught a Hindu Creation Myth, the Muslim Creation Myth, both Genesis creation Myths, the Chinese Pan Ku creation Myth.
These have all been in the Religious and Moral Education departments, which is where creation myths belong.
Does anyone know how many different creation myths are the schools in Georgia going to teach?
------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ahmad, posted 11-04-2002 4:19 PM Ahmad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by John, posted 11-04-2002 6:38 PM Brian has replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 148 (21552)
11-04-2002 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brian
11-04-2002 6:04 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:
Does anyone know how many different creation myths are the schools in Georgia going to teach?

ummmm..... only the one true creation myth -- dressed up as Intelligent Design or some such.
This is the problem. This stuff isn't being taught in religion class. It is being taught in science class, as science.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Brian, posted 11-04-2002 6:04 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 11-05-2002 3:01 AM John has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 148 (21566)
11-05-2002 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
11-04-2002 6:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:
Does anyone know how many different creation myths are the schools in Georgia going to teach?

ummmm..... only the one true creation myth -- dressed up as Intelligent Design or some such.
This is the problem. This stuff isn't being taught in religion class. It is being taught in science class, as science.

Hi John, hope you are well.
Which myth is the 'one true creation myth' or will the science classes test the probability of each myth to find out which one is true?
Best Wishes
Bria
------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by John, posted 11-04-2002 6:38 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by John, posted 11-05-2002 9:12 AM Brian has replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 148 (21567)
11-05-2002 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ahmad
11-04-2002 4:19 PM


Assalamu 'alaikum brother Ahmad,
It's nice to see another Muslim here--since Syamsu & Delshad became inactive I'm alone again here.
Welcome to the forum. However, even though I am also a Muslim, some of our opinions may differ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ahmad, posted 11-04-2002 4:19 PM Ahmad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Delshad, posted 11-05-2002 3:49 PM Andya Primanda has not replied

Ahmad
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 148 (21577)
11-05-2002 7:29 AM


Walaykum salam brother Andya Primanda. I am not sure about this but are you the same Muslim critic that is in support of evolution? Who tried to refute brother Harun Yahya regarding the new discovery of the Toumai that sank all evolutionary theories?
Regards,
Ahmad

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by nos482, posted 11-05-2002 5:03 PM Ahmad has not replied
 Message 12 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-06-2002 12:10 AM Ahmad has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 148 (21583)
11-05-2002 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
11-05-2002 3:01 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:
Which myth is the 'one true creation myth' or will the science classes test the probability of each myth to find out which one is true?
In the US, the creationist movement is pushed primarily by Christian fundamentalists. Sadly for them, the US has a policy of not teaching religious dogma in public school. And so the issue is disguised as 'Creation Science'
What will actually be taught, I wager, is some form of Intelligent Design Theory, which in a nutshell is "The universe, and life in it, couldn't have came to be without having had the input of an intelligent agent at the wheel." Proponents claim to be able to detect the evidence of design but somehow can't make a case for it.
If you search EvC you'll find a great deal on the subject. It come up a lot.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 11-05-2002 3:01 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Brian, posted 11-05-2002 10:14 AM John has not replied
 Message 25 by gene90, posted 11-08-2002 5:10 PM John has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 9 of 148 (21587)
11-05-2002 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by John
11-05-2002 9:12 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Johnston:
Which myth is the 'one true creation myth' or will the science classes test the probability of each myth to find out which one is true?
In the US, the creationist movement is pushed primarily by Christian fundamentalists. Sadly for them, the US has a policy of not teaching religious dogma in public school. And so the issue is disguised as 'Creation Science'
What will actually be taught, I wager, is some form of Intelligent Design Theory, which in a nutshell is "The universe, and life in it, couldn't have came to be without having had the input of an intelligent agent at the wheel." Proponents claim to be able to detect the evidence of design but somehow can't make a case for it.
If you search EvC you'll find a great deal on the subject. It come up a lot.

Thanks for the reply, I will have a look around the forum.
I think the Intelligent Design theory is more philosophy than science and William Paley's design argument has been reduced to nonsense by people such as Kant and Hume.
I dont think it is very scientific to say that everything has to have an intelligent designer then say that the intelligent designer doesnt have an intelligent designer.
Having had a lot of experience in teaching high school I am certain that some semi intelligent school kids will make teacher's lives very difficult in 'creation'theory classes. Will science degrees now have to start having a theological element too?
Best Wishes
Bria
------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by John, posted 11-05-2002 9:12 AM John has not replied

Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 148 (21593)
11-05-2002 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Andya Primanda
11-05-2002 3:19 AM


Salam o aleikum Andya, sorry for being inactive but I have alot of schoolwork to do but I always find the time to check in the forum to see anything new.
I hope ill start replying this forum again, I learned much about evolution but as for now, I just wish you all the best and I hope that brother Ahmad will enjoy his stay as much as I did.
Thanks for everything everyone and I hope ill hear from you again.
Sincerely Delshad

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-05-2002 3:19 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Quetzal, posted 11-06-2002 1:50 AM Delshad has not replied

nos482
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 148 (21595)
11-05-2002 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Ahmad
11-05-2002 7:29 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Ahmad:
Walaykum salam brother Andya Primanda. I am not sure about this but are you the same Muslim critic that is in support of evolution? Who tried to refute brother Harun Yahya regarding the new discovery of the Toumai that sank all evolutionary theories?
Regards,
Ahmad

Since so many don't understand how science functions people, like Harun Yahya, take advantage of this ignorance to further their own agendas and bottomlines. It would take much more than something like this, even if it were as it is being misrepresented by Harun Yahya, to sink evolution. It is not that fragile.
[This message has been edited by nos482, 11-05-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Ahmad, posted 11-05-2002 7:29 AM Ahmad has not replied

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 148 (21638)
11-06-2002 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Ahmad
11-05-2002 7:29 AM


yes, since I always use my real name and not using prophets' names for a pseudonym, I am that Andya Primanda. I refuted him and I will shortly answer his critic. In fact, I do not just attack the Toumai article but also his Chapter 9 and some of Chapter 3. Check here
http://liquid2k.com/traduza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Ahmad, posted 11-05-2002 7:29 AM Ahmad has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 13 of 148 (21649)
11-06-2002 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Delshad
11-05-2002 3:49 PM


Hello again, Delshad!
I haven't forgotten my promise to you. It appears, however, that for the moment neither of us has lots of time to engage in a detailed debate concerning religion and modern society. You have schoolwork, and I unfortunately have to make a living occasionally ( ), as well as being tied up in a rather lengthy discussion with Peter Borger, among others. However, I am willing to "make a go of it" if you wish - or we can hold it in abeyance for a bit, with the intention of coming back to the subject later.
In any event, best wishes to you during Ramadan.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Delshad, posted 11-05-2002 3:49 PM Delshad has not replied

Ahmad
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 148 (21768)
11-07-2002 5:21 AM


nos482,
quote:
Since so many don't understand how science functions people, like Harun Yahya, take advantage of this ignorance to further their own agendas and bottomlines. It would take much more than something like this, even if it were as it is being misrepresented by Harun Yahya, to sink evolution. It is not that fragile.
One the contrary, evolution contradicts the very essense of Science. Recent developments in science completely disprove the theory of evolution. The only reason Darwinism is still foisted on people by means of a worldwide propaganda campaign lies in the ideological aspects of the theory.
Brother Harun Yahya summarizes all these key points, scientifically.
And since I am a science student, who undesrtands how science fuctions, I have a better grasp over this subject. Of course, I am always open for corrections and rebuttals, nonetheless.
Regards,
Ahmad

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-07-2002 10:11 PM Ahmad has replied
 Message 26 by nator, posted 11-09-2002 9:09 AM Ahmad has replied

Ahmad
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 148 (21769)
11-07-2002 5:36 AM


Andya Primanda,
quote:
yes, since I always use my real name and not using prophets' names for a pseudonym, I am that Andya Primanda. I refuted him and I will shortly answer his critic. In fact, I do not just attack the Toumai article but also his Chapter 9 and some of Chapter 3. Check here
http://liquid2k.com/traduza
I don't see anything pseudonymous in brother Adnan using the name Harun Yahya, either.
I will have a look at your articles and in the due course of time, will issue my responses to it, Insha Allah.
It is Ramadan time, so I may not be able to give my responses pronto. And since you are a theistic evolutionist and a Muslim, I wish you a Happy Ramadan Mubarak!!
Assala Moalaikum,
Ahmad

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by John, posted 11-07-2002 6:52 AM Ahmad has replied

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