Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is GOD?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 58 of 97 (216672)
06-13-2005 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
06-08-2005 8:45 AM


I haven't read the thread. Here's my opinion;
a consequence of their experiences consider that they know that they have really determined that they have found the one true god and cannot be wrong.Since their are many POV's concerning the method or lack thereof for arrival at the "truth of god" here I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct
Well, the assumption of the none-believer, is that they start with their own view point that all religion is the same and says the same thing. That viewpoint alone negates the true faith in that person's mind. Because if you allow all religion to be the same, then the true faith is not revealed. And so I advise you to look at the evidence of the bible, that it is that one Holy book which has succeeded on earth, to convict people the most, and to show accurate prophecies. We all know that every other book is a distant second in the race.
For us, the fact that the Holy people have been scattered, and that so many believe, and so many start out in life with this one particular holy book called the bible, that God would surely only let that which is true reach the top of the pile. That which answers most things and describes best how the universe came to be, and who God is. God is love, (NT), and since love on earth would end all problems and strife, then I declare that the LORD God of Israel, IS GOD. Christ revealed the father. Jesus Christ is the truth. There can be no other thorough explanation given other than that which is provided in the scripture. Every other foolish idolisations and teaching is religion, because as the bible says "all gods are idols, but the Lord God created the heavens". That which is invisible created that which is visible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 06-08-2005 8:45 AM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by mikehager, posted 06-13-2005 4:17 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 60 of 97 (216697)
06-13-2005 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by mikehager
06-13-2005 4:17 PM


Re: You are making unfounded and unprovable assertions.
That kind of claim is the single best real world description of a circular argument I can think of. There are no unequivocally fulfilled prophecies in the Bible
There are certainly biblical prophecies even that have came to pass concerning Israel and their return to their land etc, which trumped the Muslim's jihad book.
A circular what? that's irrelevant, I'm not under the rules of science and logic. WHo cares what your side conludes as circular. We're establishing truth here! Logic doesn't necessarily establish truth, nor science.
Since the OT being fulfilled in the NT aswell as being fulfilled in modern times etc is very much evidence of something, along with the fact that the bible is the book which speaks to most people, that evidence alone must is an argument of weight. Goid wouldn't allow the majority to be hoaxed, but the lesser religions are clearly negated because of this.
The Book of Mormon has many dedicated followers. The Koran does too. In fact, so does Scientology
But stick the three together and they haven't had half the impact of the bible.
The bible obviously instills truth into the human plight and psyche. People relate to it in a major and overwhelming way, therefore it's fair to say it reflects reality, as it helps people in their real lives.
Unless one begins with the presupposition of inherent truth of the Bible, one rapidly sees that it is little different from every other mythology
I didn't suppose it was true, but then it was revealed to me when I believed. When I doubt I don't get nothing but spiel, indeed, it looks like just that, when I doubt. God isn't a foolish God, that he would give wisdom to those who doubt.
Myth books require religion. The truth of Christ doesn't. You could not make out I was a believer in Christ, from that of any other living person. But all the other religions require religion. Yet Christ gives life and joy, and puts the burdens of ours upon himself, and also went about to rid the teachings of the religious of his day, who made petty rules as stumbling blocks.
It's just that anyone can make mythology, and even cleverly. But no one could make up the bible. It all fits, there are no holes in the peacable doctrine of Christ. I know that my own wisdom is unbreakable because I always have an answer in the scripture. There is no way silly myths compare to the facts of Christ's documented resurrection, and the wisdom in the bible.
Also, I made a topic showing those things the bible tells us are true, before we found them out, which adds to the established and overwhelmingly irrefutable truth, that the bible is the real deal. Yet this is the book which says "test me". Your failing as a Christian means you doubted, as the bible says. It's not the fault of the book, but your own fault. Christ said "why do you doubt" to Peter, even when Peter had faith initially, but then sank. Likewise, you sank Mike. You bailed out on the big guy.
Fair enough if you are that rare atheist that came to a conclusion that the theology of truth is the same as the other religions. I guess God foresaw your doubts and didn't therefore show you wisdom of the scripture. Is that fair enough?
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-13-2005 06:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by mikehager, posted 06-13-2005 4:17 PM mikehager has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Asgara, posted 06-13-2005 7:22 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 62 by mikehager, posted 06-13-2005 7:23 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 63 by dsv, posted 06-13-2005 7:27 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 69 of 97 (216767)
06-14-2005 8:35 AM


I like this sentence by Mike Hager; "The sane with Christianity." It's infact my refutation so DSV's post.
You see Mike, you're just opening a big can of worms here. I have a whole different perspective about evidence. Infact, science doesn't own the word evidence, Christ used the word before your scientific method did.
John 14:11
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
Acts 11:23
When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.
So it seems miracles and grace can be evidence of God. Indeed, I am witness to both.
19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
(does any other religion say such a thing? I'd like to know so you can prove your claim that they're all the same)
The creation is evidence of God's qualities Mike. Furthermore, if being a witness is evidence, then there are many witnesses world over, to life changing experiences, and being vessels of the Holy Spirit, and being healed. The witnesses to my ears are in the hundreds, they can't all be liars mike. So we have a vast amount of evidence, also - we have correlating stories of how God acts. People feel the Spirit like a fire, or a burning which is not destroying nevertheless. I myself have felt this. What would you suggest? That I ignore such clear evidence?
Asgara, the bible is still the first and best recognized Holy Book on earth, and has alway been. I can't believe the real God would allow the majority to be fooled.
Even the majority of people, atheists and religions aswell, know that the bible is the most recognized Holy book, so that nobody is without excuse. God would not be God if he allowed so many to be fooled.
Sidenote to mike hager and other chump DSV: Mike, I know very much about logic and science, I am just not under the authority of it. Get over the fact that I know it in and out yet don't accept it over God.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-14-2005 08:39 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by dsv, posted 06-14-2005 10:19 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 71 by mikehager, posted 06-14-2005 11:43 AM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 86 by mikehager, posted 06-15-2005 12:20 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 72 of 97 (216796)
06-14-2005 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by dsv
06-14-2005 10:19 AM


What have miracles and grace got to do with Benny Hinn? I don't know him. As far as I can see he looks like some kind of pastor in a bad suit. You couldn't possibly be appealing to the steryotypical inclinations of the evo mob which screams "christian crusades, christian crusades" while all the time ignoring the millions of peaceable christians who don't make the news.
I suppose you're talking specifically about how God acts as per Judaism, Islam, Christianity and the Baha'i, which all originated from the God of the ancient Israelites and Abraham.
I meant that our experiences are as the bible describes. Nevertheless, you make a good point - that all those false religions are just copying from the Lord God of Israel, whom I stated as God in my first post in the thread. How can these religions that come after the bible, possibly be accepted as true when they are copies?
There is evidence of miracles, as I have defined evidence from the bible. I have heard and am witness to many testimonies. Have one myself.
Yet you will still say I have not provided evidence according to how you define it, scientifically, not biblically. Science is another post-concoction, which has now stole "evidence" as a term of proving something objectively but without admitting it.
Example of a self-righteouss evo; "erm, evolution isn't proven but there is loads of evidence"
= Absolutely fine by mike. Sure, evolution hasn't been proven. So then what does loads of evidence mean?
Hmmmm. how silly do you think the irrefutable one actually is?
Listen, I can't prove Christ but I have lots of evidence, as the bible defines it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by dsv, posted 06-14-2005 10:19 AM dsv has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by dsv, posted 06-14-2005 12:58 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 73 of 97 (216799)
06-14-2005 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by mikehager
06-14-2005 11:43 AM


yayayayayayayaya. baba
Mike for pete's sake I called DSV a chump. It was just a cordial addage, a bit of a joke. Nevertheless I won't make a claim you're withdrawing, or make any arguments in favour in your absence, as you requested.
ahem........*whistle whistle*......*wind blows"...........
"I am unrefuted, I win I win, you cannot beat me"!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by mikehager, posted 06-14-2005 11:43 AM mikehager has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by mikehager, posted 06-14-2005 12:38 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 76 by AdminJar, posted 06-14-2005 12:41 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 78 of 97 (216818)
06-14-2005 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by dsv
06-14-2005 12:58 PM


ahaha, any experience of the wiz will tell you that I don't do personal attacks, Infact, the word "chump" just amuses me as words do. You can check my signature if you don't believe me. It's just the un-erring and brilliantly irrefutable nature of the wiz that forces me to keep up the banter of sorts, to keep the fans happy.
While there is a modern definition of evidence and a more ancient one, the bible is clear as to what evidences God. This is evidence, and is considered evidence. We could I suppose, have a majority who decides to agree on what evidence actually is, but does it matter if another majority also have a working definition?
As for correlating experiences, I simply mean that testimonies of how people feel the power of God come over them, are the same as they've always been. But with things like alien abduction, the aliens change in appearance according to the times.
In the burger example, you can be sure that if you believe in Christ, and ask to be healed, you will be.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-14-2005 02:34 PM

Wow - what a big and huge gargantua of add hominem poppycock delirium. If I've been arrogant or rude, please quote me. I really don't know what caused this huge off-topic attack on the character of irrefutable brilliance in which I embody.~ mike the wiz ~

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by dsv, posted 06-14-2005 12:58 PM dsv has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 84 of 97 (217107)
06-15-2005 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by lfen
06-14-2005 10:25 PM


Ifen, I don't know what sparked this irrelevant add hominem attack on my character. 99% of the time, I am just debating like anyone else. I called DSV a chump for a tiny bit of fun, he said it's okay and now he agrees with your off- topic intolerance of me.
What people don't realize is that they too repeat and repeat theor ideology, and it frustrates the hell out of me.
I;ve told Shraff a thousand times that I don't believe out of fear, and then I'll see her debating belief because of fear in another thread.
I suggest you go to my new topic to discuss this further, but at the moment, I see this as an off-topic distraction and unexpected attack on me. I must assume that because I can't be refuted, I'm seen as an irritation who seeks attention. You're entitled to your opinion and judgements, but I thought you were a good guy!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by lfen, posted 06-14-2005 10:25 PM lfen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by dsv, posted 06-15-2005 11:05 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 87 of 97 (217155)
06-15-2005 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by mikehager
06-15-2005 12:20 PM


Re: Now that I have calmed down...
That's a misconception mike.
As a member of a christian forum group, we agree on almost everything in the scripture, yet here you are telling us we don't.
Lot's of outlooks have nothing to do with the scripture itself, but outside influences. That's a logical error Mike. You can't blame the bible as a faulty source because of people's interpretation. You again underestimate my capability of thinking.
For example, evolution. No believer would doubt Genesis unless they heard about evolution, an external factor. This means that it's not necessarily the scriptures fault that people would interpret things differently. Isn't that logical? Therefore it is not the bible which is not reliable. There you go Mike, a prime example of how I can use logic.
Is that logical enough for you? Oh and you said
" I'm sorry Mike, but you don't. That has been clearly shown by pretty much your entire posting career at this forum. "
Sure you don't want to take that back at this stage?
What constitutes evidence in Mike the Wiz's opinion is unimportatnt
It's not what I say is evidence, as I quoted Christ.
It is irrelevant as to what science thinks is evidence, or how it is to be used.
I'm sorry Mike, but you don't. That has been clearly shown by pretty much your entire posting career at this forum.
I know enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by mikehager, posted 06-15-2005 12:20 PM mikehager has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by mikehager, posted 06-15-2005 1:38 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 90 of 97 (217203)
06-15-2005 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by mikehager
06-15-2005 1:38 PM


ADDENDUM
ADDENDUM
Mike, people having evolution rule their lives instead of God's words is not the bible's fault. That is a ludicrous suggestion.
This is my final post in this thread, I am forced to suggest that I am irrefutably unrefuted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by mikehager, posted 06-15-2005 1:38 PM mikehager has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by kjsimons, posted 06-15-2005 3:14 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 92 by mikehager, posted 06-15-2005 3:21 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024