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Author Topic:   Hitler, Evolution, and Christianity
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 105 of 146 (218108)
06-19-2005 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by robinrohan
06-19-2005 4:36 PM


Re: Hitler's "Christianity"
robinrohan writes:
For those of you who think that Hitler was a Christian, I suggest you take a look at "Table Talk." I think you have been duped by Hitler's demagoguery.
Who said Hitler was a Christian? My position is that Hitler abused Christianity just as he abused science. He certainly didn't act like a Christian, but he didn't act like he knew anything about science either.
Based on the information that we had earlier in the thread, it seemed to me that Hitler used Christianity to sway the masses. If the speeches that you have quoted are representative, that may not be true.
What concerns me is that you seem to de-emphasize Christianity and over-emphasize science as Hitler's tool. I don't think the common people at that time had the knowledge or interest in science for it to have been an effective tool.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by robinrohan, posted 06-19-2005 4:36 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by robinrohan, posted 06-19-2005 8:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 108 of 146 (218145)
06-19-2005 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by robinrohan
06-19-2005 8:12 PM


Re: Hitler's "Christianity"
robinrohan writes:
Jar said it, not you.
I doubt that jar is more easily "duped" than I am.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by robinrohan, posted 06-19-2005 8:12 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by robinrohan, posted 06-19-2005 11:41 PM ringo has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 113 of 146 (218470)
06-21-2005 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by robinrohan
06-21-2005 3:51 PM


Re: Science is King
It seems to me that you are talking about science being held in high esteem by the intelligentsia. But Hitler appealed to the common man, the uneducated masses. They knew little about science and cared less.
Religion was a more effective tool for controlling them.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by robinrohan, posted 06-21-2005 3:51 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by robinrohan, posted 06-21-2005 7:33 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 115 by robinrohan, posted 06-21-2005 10:58 PM ringo has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 118 of 146 (218706)
06-22-2005 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by robinrohan
06-22-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Why Marxism is atheistic
Now, are you going to explain what Marxism has to do with the topic?
Or has this become a general Darwin-bashing thread?

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 12:28 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 3:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 120 of 146 (218711)
06-22-2005 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by robinrohan
06-22-2005 3:40 PM


Re: Why Marxism is atheistic
Pardon me. I was going too much by the title. I had to go back and reread the OP.
Pardon me also for being particularly thick, but I still don't see where Hitler's racism was derived from science, or where anybody would have cared if it was.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 3:40 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 3:56 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 122 of 146 (218724)
06-22-2005 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by robinrohan
06-22-2005 3:56 PM


Re: Why Marxism is atheistic
What I'm saying is that I don't see where you've achieved your goal.
1. Hitler used a perverted notion of animal breeding, applying it to races. That's unnatural selection.
2. It has been shown that Hitler definitely claimed to be a Christian, when it suited him, and it suited him when he was trying to win over Christians.
3. In your own quote, Marx spoke of rising above the "dog-eat-dog" animal world. How is that a perversion of Darwinism?
4. You have not shown (to my understanding, anyway) that any of the above were misuses of science.
I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm just saying I don't see where you're making your case. I don't see any real link to science in anything you've said, and I don't see where you've shown (other than by assertion) that an appeal to science would have had any impact.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 3:56 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 5:18 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 131 by robinrohan, posted 06-24-2005 10:40 AM ringo has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 126 of 146 (218970)
06-23-2005 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by robinrohan
06-23-2005 9:26 AM


Re: The Dangers of "Art"
robinrohan writes:
These ideologies (and some of the writings) of Nazism and Communism might be called artistic productions that claim to be "scientific." They are artistic productions in that they are eloquent, they are emotionally forceful, and they are fanciful.
That's kind of what I've been getting at (although apparently not stating it very clearly ). It was all about the effect on the audience, not the actual content.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by robinrohan, posted 06-23-2005 9:26 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by robinrohan, posted 06-23-2005 12:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 129 of 146 (219010)
06-23-2005 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by robinrohan
06-23-2005 12:47 PM


Re: The Dangers of "Art"
We may not be on the same page, but I think we're in the same chapter.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by robinrohan, posted 06-23-2005 12:47 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by robinrohan, posted 06-23-2005 1:56 PM ringo has not replied

  
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