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Author Topic:   Hitler, Evolution, and Christianity
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6793 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 42 of 146 (215086)
06-07-2005 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
06-07-2005 4:25 PM


Re: Quotes from Hitler
Jar writes:
Please explain Anti-Semitism in a Non-Christian context.
The third Abrahamic religion seems to generate anti-semitism.
ABE: Changed so this makes sense.
Chris
This message has been edited by cmanteuf, 06-07-2005 04:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 06-07-2005 4:25 PM jar has not replied

  
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6793 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 51 of 146 (215365)
06-08-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by robinrohan
06-07-2005 10:47 PM


Re: Hitler's Christianity
Robinrohan writes:
This comes from an interview with somebody named Erich Kempka, who knew Hitler (I haven't pinned down exactly who Kempka was yet):
Kempka was Hitler's Chauffeur. He split time with someone else between 1930 and 1936, from then to Hitler's death he was the sole driver. The last service he gave the Fuehrer was supplying the gasoline used to burn Adolf and Eva's corpses and watching over the fire.
So he certainly knew Hitler well. How reliable he is... I have no idea.
Chris

This message is a reply to:
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cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6793 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 112 of 146 (218452)
06-21-2005 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by robinrohan
06-21-2005 1:04 PM


Re: Darwinism and Marxism
Note that the Marxists-Leninists themselves preferred Lamarckian to Darwinian principles.
The idea was that Lamarckian inheritance showed a way to create the New Soviet Man. Trofim Lysenko provided a biological explanation for the creation of the New Soviet Man- if they simply worked hard enough at the creation of the New Soviet State, then the New Soviet Man to live in the New Soviet State would come into being. All that was necessary was personal will-power to live your life in the proper Marxist-Leninist way[1]. You see, the unguided nature of Darwinian principles bothered the Communist theoriticians; they much preferred the directed, guided Lamarckian inheritance to the random mutation-natural selection that Darwin offered. They could control Lamarckian principles, they couldn't RMNS.
Why did the theoreticians and not the scientists make the decision? In 1929 Stalin gave a speech announcing that in the future the apparatchiks would control science- it would not be left to the scientists but vetted for its political and philosophical agreement with Marxist-Leninist theory. By 1935 Lysenko had gained control of the Soviet agricultural and biological apparatuses. During the life of Stalin he crushed all opposition to his politically proper but scientifically invalid ideas. At least one of his scientific opponents was killed by the NKVD during the Great Purges of the late 1930's and early 1940's. In 1948 he gave a famous speech denouncing Mendel's theories as reactionary. Lysenko maintained his grip on Soviet biology until ~1965, when the tide finally turned and the scientific reputation of Lysenko was destroyed. But Soviet biology and genetics never recovered from the disastrous 30 year interlude in the land of politically-controlled science.
Just a point to make on this topic,
Chris
[1]: This was one of the many justifications that the Soviet State offered when they shipped undesireables (the Parasites, in the jargon of the day) to Siberia- it was a quarentine to keep them from reproducing their degenerate ways in the next generation. Obviously many other justifications existed, and the biological one was not the reason for the Purges, but it is a reminder of the way that people twist science to support their ideological goals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by robinrohan, posted 06-21-2005 1:04 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by robinrohan, posted 06-22-2005 9:19 AM cmanteuf has replied

  
cmanteuf
Member (Idle past 6793 days)
Posts: 92
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 11-08-2004


Message 125 of 146 (218933)
06-23-2005 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by robinrohan
06-22-2005 9:19 AM


Re: Darwinism and Marxism
robinrohan writes:
Is he saying that the lack of design in the animal kingdom corresponds to a lack of design in human society--so there's no reason why human society can't be designed anyway we see fit?
I think he's saying that nature is about competition for resources, with the "fit" profitting at the expense of the "weak" - just as Marx saw Victorian society. Thus the struggle of class against class is reflected in the struggle of the "weak" against the "strong" within a species in nature as well.
At least, that's what I think he's trying to say. I base this mostly on the Social Darwinists, who thought that Darwin was saying just that as well. I've not looked into Marx' views on evolution while I have done so with the Social Darwinists, so that is my bias on this issue.
robinrohan writes:
This sounds very different from the Marxist-Leninist ideas you describe.
This is no surprise: Marx and the Marxist-Leninists disagreed on an awful lot of issues. It is just an amusing point of the historical record that Marx thought Darwin supported his theories and the orthodox Marxist-Leninists were Lamarckians.
Also I wanted to make a point about the immense dangers that political resolution of scientific "disputes" can bring.
Chris
This message has been edited by cmanteuf, 06-23-2005 10:43 AM

This message is a reply to:
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