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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   For those concerned with Free Speech (or Porn), it is time to get active.
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 237 of 304 (220810)
06-29-2005 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Modulous
06-29-2005 3:32 PM


Re: The porn industry
Did I say "ruins marriages?" Did anybody else? Who said anything about repression? I love the way people leap to enormous conclusions from a very few specific statements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Modulous, posted 06-29-2005 3:32 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2005 3:42 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 238 of 304 (220820)
06-29-2005 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by nator
06-29-2005 7:07 PM


Re: Porn good bad or neutral
There are degrees of what I'm talking about. I didn't use the term "threatened." It may apply to some and not to others. It depends on the personalities and the degree of addiction to porn, which really is a big problem in some marriages these days.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by nator, posted 06-29-2005 7:07 PM nator has replied

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 Message 254 by nator, posted 06-30-2005 7:31 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 239 of 304 (220821)
06-29-2005 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Silent H
06-29-2005 2:46 PM


Re: Porn good bad or neutral
who needs the elaborate explicit scenarios of porn?
Yeah, why did they make all those Biblical Epics during the 20th century, filled with beautiful women and hot men all being lusty. I mean Samson and Delilah? Who needed that?
Oh come on. Do we have to start from scratch at this late point in the conversation defining what porn is and how these things aren't it? Did that get an XXX rating? Let's be reasonable here.
And my point was a good one if taken in context. If mere allusions to sexual scenarios suffice for erotic stimulation then why does the porn "industry" seek more and more creative explicitness?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Silent H, posted 06-29-2005 2:46 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2005 10:45 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 246 by Silent H, posted 06-30-2005 4:26 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 304 (220826)
06-29-2005 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Silent H
06-29-2005 2:42 PM


Re: Porn good bad or neutral
You are strawmanning me all through the first part of your post, accusing me of ridiculous things and just carrying on with the same, so I don't see the point of endlessly trying to answer you.
Song of Solomon is supposed to be stimulating and is admitted as such by many, so I don't even know where you get off claiming it is never stimulating.
Look if it suffices as porn for you, that's your business. I find the imagery to be rather odd to be intended for erotic purposes.
BUT overall porn is massively male-dominated and male-oriented and the women play roles suited to the male fantasies.
=======
Okay, and what exactly is wrong with that? If the majority of buyers are something and so the market reflects that majority... is that bad?
Oh come ON. An unrestrained market-driven society is only going to bring out the absolute worst in everybody.
It depends on whether it is good or bad or neutral. I have been arguing all along here that it is bad for relationships, bad for women, bad for marriages etc.
But it isn't bad for all relationships, women, marriages. My guess is it is only bad for bad relationships, insecure women, and bad marriages.
Uh huh, well that sure does take care of all the complaints, doesn't it, just relegate them to inferior people. Also, when discussing a TREND the information that not *all* fit the trend is a bit superfluous wouldn't you say?
It has actually can help all three which is why it has been popular throughout history and cultures and is growing in popularity now.
Um, no that is most certainly not the reason for the growth of popularity of porn. It's a lot more primitive than that, kinda like the opening of Pandora's box I'd say, or just more like the popularity of junk food -- it's certainly not desired for its supposed "helpfulness." That's a laugh. Just exactly WHO is being benefited and to what extent is the sense of benefit is shared by others or the partner? There are better routes to improvement than introducing sexual scenarios from outside the relationship.
Understanding??? Understanding??? Grow???
Yes. Or are you uncertain what the definition of those words are? The question I raise is if a thing (X) leads to a person liking something they had not realized they might like, is that bad or growth?
Again, it depends on whether the something is good, bad or neutral. For the sake of illustration would you say it is a good thing to "grow" in appreciation of the many ways to kill, copulate with, dismember, store, prepare, flavor and consume the body of a human being? Not everything people learn to like is good. By a long shot. We being fallen and all. I believe there's nothing inherently good about porn of any type, it's all exploitative.
I would just like to keep the point simple and focused: Male oriented porn often promotes a dehumanizing and demeaning image of women which may have many degrees of exploitative and violent expressions, and is a form of infidelity as experienced by many women.
...insecure women will be unable to differentiate between a man's fantasizing with real infidelity.
I believe that objectively speaking fantasizing is a form of infidelity whether the woman is insecure or not or even notices it, as it takes your mind away from your partner to something more attractive to you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Silent H, posted 06-29-2005 2:42 PM Silent H has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 241 of 304 (220827)
06-29-2005 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by nator
06-29-2005 6:58 PM


Re: Faith? A response if you will.
I in no way meant to imply that India is superior to any other nation.
Not superior specifically in terms of its sexual openness as compared to, say, a Christian society?
I was using India's long tradition of the Kama Sutra nad sexual religious imagery and iconography to specifically counter your claim that societies which have such factors have all crumbled.
India hasn't crumbled. That's all I wanted to point out.
Well I answered that India has not exactly been the epitome of a prosperous healthy society considering its extreme poverty and other social ills, but in any case if you really did not mean to put the sexual openness illustrated in the temple images above a Christian society's sense of sexual propriety, then I stand corrected and will retract my statement.
This message has been edited by Faith, 06-29-2005 10:45 PM
This message has been edited by Faith, 06-29-2005 10:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 304 (220878)
06-30-2005 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Modulous
06-30-2005 3:42 AM


Re: The destruction of the institution and the dehumanizing of women
All it takes is a small percentage of men to be inspired to rape and murder, not the entire population, to make porn a bad thing. All it takes is a general tendency to a dehumanizing of women, only really noticeable in a small percentage of the population, to make porn a bad thing. When you say "ruined marriages" as if I were saying it always does that to all marriages you are mischaracterizing my point. I think it is a tendency, a trend, and not a good one.
And the alternative to porn is not repression. Yes that is a false dichotomy, thank you. Other alternatives to porn? How about healthy happy marriages?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2005 3:42 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Modulous, posted 06-30-2005 7:18 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 253 by crashfrog, posted 06-30-2005 7:30 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 255 by nator, posted 06-30-2005 7:37 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 249 of 304 (220879)
06-30-2005 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Silent H
06-30-2005 4:26 AM


Increasing explicitness
My question about increasing explicitness was a reference to the other poster, I don't remember who, who said that people get bored and want more. That's not about inborn proclivities, it's about the product's whetting the appetite for new things. That is what I meant anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Silent H, posted 06-30-2005 4:26 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by CK, posted 06-30-2005 6:21 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 257 by Silent H, posted 06-30-2005 8:47 AM Faith has not replied

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