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Author Topic:   David Rohl's Research (Re: 'A Test Of Time', re: Egyptian chronology)
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 50 (220916)
06-30-2005 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tranquility Base
06-30-2005 3:33 AM


Re: The Saul/David/Solomon evidence is more than convincing
Even the mainstreamers associate habiru with a small band of Hebrews. I don't think that is in doubt.
It most certainly is in doubt, and infact, you will be hard pressed to find ANY support for such an assertion. Habiru was used as a generic term similar to Gypsy or Romany and refered to people from all over the area. Itwas also used over a long, long period from way before anything like Hebrews existed.
Once again you seem to be making some pretty strong assertions of what is mainstream. It's time you supported your position. Read the Armana letters that can be found here

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 06-30-2005 3:33 AM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 50 (220922)
06-30-2005 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tranquility Base
06-30-2005 9:44 AM


Re: The Saul/David/Solomon evidence is more than convincing
That will be interesting.
Yes, it's true that the mpst common view today of the Habiru is not necessarily to equate it with Hebrew.
But why is that? Only becasue it doesn't fit the conventional chronology.
Nope. It is because the evidence shows that it was a generic term. It doesn't fit the Biblical chronology or mythology. But then so far many things we've discovered do not fit the Biblical tales.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Tranquility Base, posted 06-30-2005 9:44 AM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Tranquility Base, posted 06-30-2005 9:56 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 50 (221029)
06-30-2005 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Tranquility Base
06-30-2005 10:59 PM


Re: Habiru
Have you read the Armana Tablets? I don't see how you can see any connection to Hebrews in the references to Habiru in the tablets. Instead, the term seems to be applied to mercenary peoples that were hired by all sides during the various city-state disputes. There is certainly NO indication of either a political entity called Habiru or ANY organized army.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Tranquility Base, posted 06-30-2005 10:59 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-01-2005 3:15 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 50 (221121)
07-01-2005 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tranquility Base
07-01-2005 3:15 AM


Re: Habiru
If that's really your viewpoint that you can't even see why we might think the Habiru in the tablets might be the Hebrews GIVEN the Egyptological and retro-astronimical revised chronology (both of which are independent of the Amarna tablets) then it seems to me you are not open to discussion.
You say that your other information is independent of the Armana Tablets. Is that a correct statement?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-01-2005 3:15 AM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 7:33 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 50 (221482)
07-03-2005 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Tranquility Base
07-03-2005 7:33 PM


Re: Habiru
Sorry but how do any of the things you mention relate to the term Habiru in the Armana Tablets being synonymous with Hebrew.
I still see nothing but smoke and mirrors. Where is there any evidence to support the "New Chronology"?
The Bible records names, battles, other events and places alongside an unbroken geneology which is explicitly parellism-free.
LOL
Yup. Too bad so far almost none of them have been suppodrted as actually existing.
Look, you agree that the Armana letters stand as independant evidence. They clearly show that the conquest of Canaan either before or during the period specified in the Bible just plain never happened. Unless you can come up with some firm evidence, not just 'whatifs', that is pretty much the end of the Exodus story as told in the Bible.
Never happened.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 7:33 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 8:29 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 50 (221494)
07-03-2005 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Tranquility Base
07-03-2005 8:29 PM


Re: Habiru
Easily. The other non-Amarna evidence *independently* aligns the Armana tablets with 1000BC - Habiru or no Habiru. *Then*, when we look at the Habiru of the Amarna tablets we see the yare doing things in the right places at the right times to be David's band of Hebrews!
How is that?
letter from Abdu-Heba to Pharoah writes:
While the king, my Lord, lives, I will say to the commissioner of the king, my Lord: "Why do you favour the Hapiru [2] and are opposed to the rulers?"
Yapahu to Pharoah writes:
Let the king, my lord, be aware that my younger brother, has rebelled against me and has entered Muhhazu, and he has given over his two hands to the leader of the 'Apiru.
In addition, there are many letters that show regular commerce and politics and there are NONE that show any organized intrusion or army.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 8:29 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 8:50 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 50 (221501)
07-03-2005 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tranquility Base
07-03-2005 8:50 PM


Re: Habiru
There are many conquests described in the Amarna tablets.
Actually, I don't see any such signs. There is talk of city-state rivalries, but not one single example of organized conquest. Where do you see such signs?
And there is absolutely no indication of something like a Nation State headed by David.
This message has been edited by jar, 07-03-2005 07:57 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 8:50 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 9:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 40 of 50 (221511)
07-03-2005 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Tranquility Base
07-03-2005 9:07 PM


Re: Habiru
Let's look at those.
EA252 writes:
To the king my lord: message from Lab'aya, your servant. At the feet of the king, I throw myself. Since you have written: "Protect the men who have occupied the city!", how can I protect (those) men? The city has been occupied in war. When I pledged peace -- and when I pledged, a Grandee pledged with me -- the city was occupied. And he was capable of calumniating against me (gloss 'I was denigrated' in front of the king, my lord. Further, an ant, when it is squashed, doesn't revolt perhaps and bite the hand of the man who squashes it? If I had acted timidly, another city would have been taken today! Further, if you say to me, despite all, "Fall before them, that they can strike!", I will do it. I will protect the men who have occupied the city: I could dislodge my enemies, and I protect them!
Certainly doesn't sound like David's son-in-law.
EA287 writes:
To the king my lord, [say: message from Ab]di-Heba, your servant. [At the feet] of the king my lord seven [and seven times I throw myself. Look], the entire question [..] they have introduced [.. Look] at the thing they have done [against me, which ..] arrows of bronze (?) [..] they have introduced into Qiltu. Let the king know that all the lands are allied, they are enemies against me. May the king provide for his land! Look, the country of Gezer, the country of Ascalon, and Lachish have given food, oil, and every (gloss "their need'. May the king provide troops, send troops against the men who have committed treason against the king my lord. If within this year there are troops, the lands and the regents will stay with the king my lord, but if there are not troops, there will not be lands or regents for the king. Look, this land of Jerusalem, neither my father nor my mother gave me the strong hand (gloss 'arm' [the king] has given me! Look, this action is an action of Milki-Ilu and an action of the sons of Lab'aya, who have given the land of the king to the enemy (habiru).
Again, no indication of some Nation State opposing them but rather city-state political rivalries, all of the city-states still under the rule of Egypt.
And you can read the rest.
But remember, in addition to these there are also those that deal with normal commerce and politics. Throughout the Armana letters there is simply no indication of the existence of David, Saul, Israel or any similar nation-state.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 9:07 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 9:51 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 50 (221520)
07-03-2005 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Tranquility Base
07-03-2005 9:51 PM


Re: Habiru
But there IS NO Kingdom of Israel mentioned.
There is even less connection between Labaya (Saul) than there is between Habiru (Hebrew).
And the rest of the stuff is just more word play.
Sorry, this is pretty pointless. Good luck.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 9:51 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-03-2005 10:08 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 50 (221553)
07-04-2005 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Tranquility Base
07-04-2005 12:27 AM


Re: Solomon
You find a Jerusalem that is a vassal city-state of Egypt and not a Solomonic-like Jerusalem. It doesn't matter whether you move the date forward or backwards, you have the same problem. No one in the area ever heard of Israel, Judah or a Jewish Kingdom.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Tranquility Base, posted 07-04-2005 12:27 AM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
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