Christian conversion experience: descriptions/analysis/links: input invited

I think there are double-blind studies involving prayer in general, but in terms of the gifts of the Spirit, God is not subject to man dictating when He should do something, and that would probably be a spiritual violation, imo, of the whole thing.It has nothing to do with your claims of fear it will be exposed as false or something, but if you want to believe that, no one is stopping you. It doesn't change the fact you are beleiving a lie though.It'd be sort of like if I said, hey, I don't believe your wife has an orgasm, if you pardon my crudeness. How about you let us do some tests with her to see if she's really faking it or not?Oh, you don't want to do that. Well, that's because she's faking it. We knew it all along!There is a holy aspect to the demonstration of the power of God, and I am not saying God cannot lead people to advertise the miracles, but at the same time, Jesus was pretty clear on what He said to the people that demanded a "sign" before they would believe and after He had already been doing miracles. He rejected them.It's sort of like tempting God, saying hey, God, I am not going to believe you unless I can control what you do and subject you to this testing process set up by us and where you perform when we ask you to.It just doesn't pass the smell test so to speak.This message has been edited by randman, 06-27-2005 09:47 PM

Somehow I doubt that... That's where you are wrong. Christians also regularly test their beliefs with their lives as well, sometimes paying a dear price for that testing, especially overseas.On doubting Thomas, God will sometimes answer an individual in a crisis of faith so to speak, where they doubt, but Thomas' tone was of different in some respects. He doubted the Lord has risen, but He didn't demand the Lord come and show Him. He said he would not believe otherwise, but he didn't presume to the other apostles and say, hey, unless you make Him come down and perform for me, in a double-blind study nonetheless, I won't believe.I've had the Lord answer my doubts in a similar manner to the way Thomas' doubts, but I cannot make Jesus perform for you. If he chooses to do so, that's how it will be, and if not, he won't. He's God, not us.On the double-blind studies, do your own research. There have been hundreds of studies done involving testing whether there is a statistical improvement for people prayed for and those not prayed for.If you want to know the truth, go look for it. It's not my job to try to cram it down your throat, although I've been known to try.Btw, please do talk to God about it, seriously. Tell Him you'd believe if He gave you some reason to believe, and tell Him your thoughts.Just don't ask me to get in the way there. It's not that I don't want to take a lot of time trying to prove God to you. It's just it won't do much good until you are already looking, for real.This message has been edited by randman, 06-28-2005 12:36 AMThis message has been edited by randman, 06-28-2005 12:37 AM

There's more to the story than that. He "fills all in all."But as far as the theological understanding of why a loving God would create hell, or allow people to go there, the basic concept is answered by looking at this world and reality. If God is real, and He is, He then allows for tremendous suffering right now.That's a basic question people have to deal with.Jesus' message is that God is a Father who loved the world so much He sent His Son, etc,...but Jesus warns of hell quite dramatically.But I note you add some qualifiers such as "for all eternity" that could be interesting to consider.What does that mean, "all eternity"?Is God limited in His ability to save by time? How do "all things become new"?

Yes, that's true,and and the Bible reports people being "filled with the Spirit" to the point of appearing drunk as well.This message has been edited by randman, 06-30-2005 02:31 PM