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Author Topic:   Christian conversion experience: descriptions/analysis/links: input invited
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 20 of 199 (214875)
06-06-2005 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Gilgamesh
06-06-2005 9:33 PM


Re: fear
Gilgamesh writes:
I've spent over 10 years trying to identify a intellectual path to belief, and have failed to find it. It is my experience that there is no such path and that conversion (whether it be a born again process or a slow evolution of thought) is an emotional process. A degree of intellectualisation occurs after conversion, or what I call "backrationalisation", only to the extent that is necessary for psychological comfort. Compartmentalisation is then used to ensure that the emotional need is not compromised by rational analysis. Many Christian faiths have processes/rules/tenets that assist with this process.
I only agree partially. When I made the decision to determine just what it was that I believed in my mid thirties, I started out by reading C.S.Lewis. I found his arguments convincing enough that I came to the conclusion that the basic tenets of the Christian faith were probably true. With that questioning faith I started church, prayed infrequently and worked at living by a Christian standard.
Shortly after that I found that I actually was looking at the world differently. I have no doubt that I had some experience of God in my life, (nothing in the least spectacular) and that things were different particularly in my dealings with others.
It's all pretty straight forward and mundane but I after years of experience I don't doubt my Christianity. Frankly I wasn't, and I'm not looking for psychological comfort I just want to get as close to the truth as I can.
What I am very curious about is how God did it. As I don't have a scientific or biological education I am dependent on others to garner information as to just how it did happen. If it is by evolution or by instant creation doesn't really matter to me, I would just like to have some idea of how he actually did it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Gilgamesh, posted 06-06-2005 9:33 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Gilgamesh, posted 06-06-2005 11:51 PM GDR has not replied
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 06-07-2005 1:17 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 103 by randman, posted 06-25-2005 3:59 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 181 of 199 (221140)
07-01-2005 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Gilgamesh
06-27-2005 8:11 PM


Re: A conversion experience analysis
Gilgamesh writes:
I grant there may be some exceptions; probably those who actually find Christian apologetics convincing. If someone here has identified a genuine intellectual path to God that could convince an informed sceptical intellectual, without the need of references to personal subjective experiences/conversion processes or emotive appeals, by all means open a thread and post the good news.
If you are genuinely interested in following an intellectual path to Christianity then I strongly suggest that you read CS Lewis. His path which is the one that led me to Christianity is all about reason. Incidently, he is not a literalist.
I have 3 books of his that I can suggest.
His book "Surprised By Joy" tells of his own conversion after many years as an Atheist.
"Mere Christianity" tells about the Christian faith.
"God in the Dock" deals with a series of questions that people find difficult about Christianity.
There is no shortage of info on him on the net. He was at Oxford and died the same day as JFK.
This message has been edited by GDR, 07-01-2005 01:17 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Gilgamesh, posted 06-27-2005 8:11 PM Gilgamesh has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 196 of 199 (221929)
07-05-2005 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Gilgamesh
06-27-2005 8:11 PM


Re: A conversion experience analysis
gilgamesh writes:
Disagree. I have muddied the waters be reiterating my thesis that there is no intellectual path to God, for an informed sceptical intellectual, but I'll save that debate for another thread. It is relevant though because it emphaises why the emotive conversion experience (which I have defined in this thread previously) is a brilliant tool for transcending intellectual obstacles to faith. I have witnesses many conversions of non-believers via the conversion process, believers who then are incapable of intellectually rationalising their beliefs without reference to the conversion (or personal experience of God as they call it) or emotional appeals.
I grant there may be some exceptions; probably those who actually find Christian apologetics convincing. If someone here has identified a genuine intellectual path to God that could convince an informed sceptical intellectual, without the need of references to personal subjective experiences/conversion processes or emotive appeals, by all means open a thread and post the good news.
I've provided a link to an interview with Francis Collins who has a graduate degree in QM, a MD and PHD in physical sciences. He is also the director of the Human Genome Project and has come to the Christian faith via an intellectual path and without subjective experience. He actually provides exactly what it is you are asking for.
I started another thread on Francis Collins but I remembered the discussion here and it fit exactly with what you were asking so this link is also in the other thread. (Apologies to admin.)
The Question of God . Other Voices . Francis Collins | PBS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Gilgamesh, posted 06-27-2005 8:11 PM Gilgamesh has not replied

  
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