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Author Topic:   Why read the Bible literally: take two
Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 91 of 306 (221210)
07-01-2005 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by robinrohan
07-01-2005 4:55 PM


Re: The Clowns of Science
Don't introduce it yet. There's a project I'd like to work on a bit first.
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2860 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 92 of 306 (221211)
07-01-2005 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
07-01-2005 1:25 PM


Re: Who did Cain marry?
Very well. The YEC literature I think I saw shyly suggested 8 children per family in their argument.

Its interesting to me that you noted cat DNA as also devolving and correlating somewhat to that of human beings.

(Edited for grammar and typos)

This message has been edited by Philip, 07-01-2005 05:02 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 1:25 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 93 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 5:05 PM Philip has not yet responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 306 (221214)
07-01-2005 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Philip
07-01-2005 5:00 PM


Re: Who did Cain marry?
Very well. The YEC literature I think I saw shyly suggested 8 children per family as an arguement.

Doesn't that seem awfully paltry for so many years and such strength of body? I don't get why Noah only had three sons in his 900 years myself.

Interesting that you note cat DNA as also devolving and correlating somewhat to that of human beings.

Cats and other animals get cancer and all kinds of diseases, but those things are the result of sin and yet we don't think of animals as capable of sin, so it seems to me it must be explained in terms of the creation's having been cursed for our sake somehow.


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docpotato
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 94 of 306 (221215)
07-01-2005 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
07-01-2005 4:49 PM


Re: The Clowns of Science
I think that it simply took hold for whatever reason and now can't be challenged.

I think you should probably look closely at how historically the TOE "took hold".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 4:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 95 of 306 (221216)
07-01-2005 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
07-01-2005 5:05 PM


Re: Who did Cain marry?
Doesn't that seem awfully paltry for so many years and such strength of body? I don't get why Noah only had three sons in his 900 years myself.

Maybe Noah's wife had something to do with that!


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 96 of 306 (221218)
07-01-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by docpotato
07-01-2005 5:07 PM


Re: The Clowns of Science
"For whatever reason" doesn't mean I don't know the reason, it just means the reason is not relevant to the point.
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jar
Member
Posts: 30941
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 97 of 306 (221224)
07-01-2005 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by robinrohan
07-01-2005 4:13 PM


CK in Heaven
Not only does Charles have a chance, he has a better chance than 99.999999999% of all Christians. And a heaven without the CK and Froggie would be a far diminished shadow of perfection.

But back towards the topic.

How does a figurative GOE and Adam and Steve diminish the Christian message? Does anyone actually believe the description of creation as found in Genesis 2?

18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

"Hey Adam, try the sheep on for size."

"Well, GOD, at least they don't scratch like that Bengal Tiger but somehow it still doesn't feel right. And she's great at mowing the grass but I can't get her to fix dinner or darn my socks."

Can anyone believe GOD created elephants and dinosaurs and Lions and Tigers and Bears and OhMys as a help meet?

What a dork!


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2860 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 98 of 306 (221227)
07-01-2005 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by docpotato
07-01-2005 5:07 PM


Re: Who did Cain marry?
Perhaps Noah's wife had additional "unmentioned" children within the 300 years Noah survived after the flood. But it seems to me to violate scriptural parsimony:

Gen 9:19 states: "These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread."

Also, Abram's wife (though commended (sexy) unto Egypt's Pharaoh and princes) produced a 'miracle' child (Isaac) beyond her apparent conceiving years.

Nonetheless the chronology seems expedited in Gen 11 to "push" the coming in of Abram.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 99 of 306 (221238)
07-01-2005 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Philip
07-01-2005 5:37 PM


fertility
Perhaps Noah's wife had additional "unmentioned" children within the 300 years Noah survived after the flood. But it seems to me to violate scriptural parsimony:

Gen 9:19 states: "These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread."

Sounds exhaustive to me.

Also, Abram's wife (though commended (sexy) unto Egypt's Pharaoh and princes) produced a 'miracle' child (Isaac) beyond her apparent conceiving years.

Nonetheless the chronology seems expedited in Gen 11 to "push" the coming in of Abram.

Not sure what you mean here, but again I have trouble grasping how they had so FEW children, and Sarah's inability to conceive, considering their health and longevity.

This message has been edited by Faith, 07-01-2005 06:04 PM

This message has been edited by Faith, 07-01-2005 06:06 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Philip, posted 07-01-2005 5:37 PM Philip has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Philip, posted 07-01-2005 7:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 104 by Dead Parrot, posted 07-02-2005 5:11 AM Faith has responded

  
Philip
Member (Idle past 2860 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 100 of 306 (221250)
07-01-2005 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
07-01-2005 6:02 PM


Re: Varying children and generations
I was merely speculating that Gen 11 scripture might perhaps hit on chronological highlights in order to usher in the relatively important scriptures concerning Abraham and his dispensation. Matthews gospel highlights 3x14 generations of chronology (from Abraham, Davidic Kings, and Jewish captivity) that seems (to me) to majestically usher JESUS in as the seed-royal King and Savior.

Pertinent and varying generations are stressed

Some women, like Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Leah, Hannah (etc.) seemed to be predestined by God to have just one man-child or 2, for various key scriptural reasons no doubt.

But, I concur that the pre-patriarchs were multiplying the face of the earth (Adam, Seth, through Methuselah and Lamech) and their wives had many sons and daughters, according to scriptures:
1) Gen 5-6 states each begat sons and daughters about 9-10 times (before the flood-judgment)
2) Gen 6:1-2 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

It seems perhaps that nothing at all hindered childbearing back then. That is, I perceive families might have been consistently large for these 9 generations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 6:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 11:23 PM Philip has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 101 of 306 (221278)
07-01-2005 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Philip
07-01-2005 7:01 PM


Re: Varying children and generations
Yes, so we seem to agree on these things. Do you have an argument in support of reading Genesis 1-11 literally or Jonah? I've given two, basically the argument from many authorities starting with Jesus, and the argument that a literal reading is necessary to the overall consistency of the Biblical message. Are there others?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Philip, posted 07-01-2005 7:01 PM Philip has responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 102 of 306 (221291)
07-02-2005 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LinearAq
07-01-2005 8:57 AM


Re: Faith
Why couldn't the Fall have only ushered in the death of the soul rather than physical death? Maybe physical death has been around all along. I say this because Adam didn't physically die the day he ate the fruit.

The Hebrew word for "day" can also be used to mean "age". Thus, In the age that you eat of it, you will die. Prior to the "Fall, there was an age of innocence. After the Fall, the Age of conscience was born. Later, Jesus broke it all down to two commandments. 1) Love God
2) Love your neighbor. By doing these two things, many less people would die in the age that we live in.
America was not deemed to be wealthy in order to be selfish. If we had spent 80 billion dollars (twice) on humanitarian world needs rather than Iraq, we would be in a safer place.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 103 of 306 (221292)
07-02-2005 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by CK
07-01-2005 3:48 PM


Re: Who did Cain marry?
CK writes:

People don't have sex in heaven? Can you point me towards the chapter in the bible that states this? I've had a quick look and can't find it.

The basic idea about Heaven is that God Himself is the focus of attention and adoration rather than that hott angel with the little curve. Sex will be transcended in Heaven as everyone will be in such a state as to be feeling good enough without it. Additionally, it will serve no needed function. does that make any sense, Charles? Of course we are speaking hypothetically since neither of us has as yet been to heaven. :)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by CK, posted 07-01-2005 3:48 PM CK has not yet responded

Dead Parrot
Member (Idle past 1483 days)
Posts: 151
From: Wellington, NZ
Joined: 04-13-2005


Message 104 of 306 (221293)
07-02-2005 5:11 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Faith
07-01-2005 6:02 PM


Re: fertility
Hi Faith (et al),
Just sticking my nose in to mention Sceaf, supposedly Noah's fourth son: According to the Qur'an, he was born before the flood and refused to go onboard; whilst in Norse/Saxon folklore he was born onboard and various nobles have claimed descent from him.

I stubled accross this factoid by chance, so if anyone wants to follow it up you're on your own... :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 07-01-2005 6:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 07-02-2005 5:46 AM Dead Parrot has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31311
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 105 of 306 (221295)
07-02-2005 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Dead Parrot
07-02-2005 5:11 AM


Re: fertility
So according to the Quran he just died in the Flood, or if not, how did he survive it? Did they tie him up and carry him on board, or did he get translated to paradise to wait out the Flood with 72 virgins or what?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Dead Parrot, posted 07-02-2005 5:11 AM Dead Parrot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by CK, posted 07-02-2005 6:03 AM Faith has responded
 Message 107 by Dead Parrot, posted 07-02-2005 6:21 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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