Balancing Faith and Science

I suppose you CAN if you really want to. People can do whatever they want. I can choose to believe that the Earth is most certainly 100% flat except when it's round.You're saying there's absolutely no conflicts to be resolved?

Between religion and science? No. Why should there be any?I think this is wandering around the edge of one of the great misconceptions. Let's see if we can explore it somewhat.What possible conflict do you think there might be between Science and Religion?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Wow, it's very surprising that there are so many debates on this forum then. That's a pretty long list depending on which religion in question. How about the age of the Earth?

Speaking as a Christian, probably only 4-6 Billion years old. That's pretty well accepted as is the 14-20 Billion year estimate for the universe.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I already knew that was your view, but I don't think you can say that is the consensus of organized Christianity.

It's the opinion of much of organized Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church, Episcopal Church, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran and many Baptist Churches. It's the position of the Anglican Church. That's a pretty large segment of Christianity I'd say. In addition it's the position of the American Jewish Congress.AbE:If you'll also check some of the court cases you'll find that the most vocal opponents of teaching Creationism are other Christian Churches.This message has been edited by jar, 07-05-2005 10:58 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Faith to me was a very rational decision. I don't know if you looked at the interview with Francis Collins on PBS. (The link is on posting #6 in this thread) I certainly don't have the insights of a Francis Collins but I accepted the Christian faith after reading the same books that he did. (CS Lewis)There doesn't exist the emprical evidence for faith that is required by science, but there is considerable philosophical evidence for it as outlined by Collins in that interview.

The idea that the Earth is 6000 years old is definitely not the concensus of oragainzed Christianity.This message has been edited by GDR, 07-05-2005 10:33 PMThis message has been edited by GDR, 07-05-2005 10:34 PM

I think the vast majority of your everyday Christians never think about it and have never given it any kind of thought. They don't know or care about the age of the Earth. Furthermore, they don't know all that much about their religion except that it's a routine and it's "just what good people do."There seems to be a consensus that is passed down through the ranks and is expressed from the more prominent religious leaders that does disagree with science on various issues, including in some cases the age of the Earth.I feel they represent the religion and if you're participating and paying, you're supporting and endorsing, just like with any organization.

I think you are only partly right. In my experience the vast majority of Christians don’t know or care how old the Earth is as it has no bearing on their faith. In the first half of the last century you were probably right. In my experience after having lived and gone to church in various cities I believe that now, you are completely wrong. People go to church because of their faith, and the majority of those do try and find out more about their faith. The majority read Genesis to find the spiritual truth not the literal truth. If I didn't believe in the truth of basic Christianity I can assure you that I could find better things to do with my time. The ones you are talking about don't represent the religion. They may represent one view but they certainly don't represent me or the majority of Christians worldwide. If you want an accurate measure of their faith I'd suggest that you judge them by the life style that they live. If they are living affluent life styles as a result of their ministry then I'd suggest that you look elsewhere for someone who is truly representative of the Christian faith.This message has been edited by GDR, 07-05-2005 11:19 PM

A belief in God is not irrational. Neither of course is a disbelief.Nobody really knows if there is a God or not.

If a belief in god is not irrational, then a belief in anything no matter how absurb is then also not irrational. So believers in UFOs, ghosts, ESP, IPU (Invisible pink or purple unicorns on Pluto), Scientology, you name it are just as rational.Sorry, I just don't buy it! Belief may be part of humanity, but IMHO it is ridiculous to call it rational. Believe what you will but to me the only rational belief is based on evidence.

The concept of "God" is not on the same level as those other things you mention. Those other things you mention do not have to do with the rationale of why the universe should exist. They are extraneous beliefs.

There are many religions, each telling its own story of the creation of the universe. Most stories are different in non-trivial ways. They cannot all be true. If there is no rational, objective way to determine which story is true, then how can it be rational to choose any one of them? If the only way to come to a belief is a subjective feeling that that particular belief is the truth, then rationality isn't part of the process. {edited to fix subtitle}This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 06-Jul-2005 03:02 PM

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

I believe that gods and religion are "extraneous beliefs", with no real basis behind them except for some hairless apes with big brains started thinking such things were needed to explain the whys of existence. My feeling is that we all need to grow up and realize that there is no reason for our existence, we just exist. Now I feel we should contribute to society and "play nice", you know the golden rule and all, but I don't think we need gods and religion to do that.