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Author Topic:   Karl Rove: Traitor?
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 11 of 271 (222130)
07-06-2005 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-05-2005 1:17 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what do you guys/gals think of Deepthroat?
Traitor or Hero?

"Some say freedom is free...but I beg to disagree. Some say freedom is won, through the barrel of a gun..."
-Army Cadence
"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 07-05-2005 1:17 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by berberry, posted 07-06-2005 10:58 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 13 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 11:00 AM Tal has replied
 Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 11:45 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 07-11-2005 8:25 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 14 of 271 (222133)
07-06-2005 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
07-06-2005 11:00 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Interesting. You both do realize that what he did was illegal and that he had a proper recourse he could have taken?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 11:00 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by berberry, posted 07-06-2005 11:13 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 15 of 271 (222134)
07-06-2005 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
07-05-2005 1:17 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
And for a real reply to Jar...
No from what I got out of it, someone on the inside was disclosing the identity on an undercover agent to a reporter and the reporter was refusing to reveal the person who was giving this information

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 07-05-2005 1:17 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 11:18 AM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 19 of 271 (222152)
07-06-2005 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
07-06-2005 11:18 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
Not sure how you don't see how it has nothing to do with what you wrote. You were asking if you were reading it right and I was telling you how I read it.
Karl Rove's name is listed only as a Source for the Reports Article, not as the Source for the particular info...
Which if you ever see a Reporters Source list for any particular article it will have about 100 names on it. Anybody from a couple of Wino's to the Presidents Chief of Staff. Just because a name is on the list does not make it a bad thing. If the reporter talked to that person then he makes it on the list. It even goes so far as if the reporter read anything a person published or wrote... the name goes on the list...
What is happening is the media is latching onto the guy and trying to make the evidence fit the "Crime" instead of see what the evidence really is.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 11:18 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 12:40 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 22 of 271 (222160)
07-06-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
07-06-2005 12:40 PM


Re: This story is growing legs
Correct.
Go on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 12:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 12:53 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 24 of 271 (222165)
07-06-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by deerbreh
07-06-2005 12:29 PM


Re: Leaking the names of CIA operatives is treason.,
Yes I believe whoever leaked Plame's identity committed treason, if they did it deliberately. Furthermore, it is particularly egregious because it was apparently leaked for partisan political reasons. Furthermore, anyone who had knowledge of the leak (either before or after the act) and is not coming forward is guilty of obstruction of justice.
I agree.
Was it Rove on either count? I don't know but it certainly looks as if he was involved.
How does it look like it? His name is on a list of a hundred people? Roves lawyer said, "yeah Rove talked to him on this subject." Why would a lawyer say that if Rove had done something incriminating?
I want whomever leaked the name to fry for sure, but it seems like you left wingers are jumping on this a little early IMO.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by deerbreh, posted 07-06-2005 12:29 PM deerbreh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by deerbreh, posted 07-06-2005 1:15 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 25 of 271 (222166)
07-06-2005 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
07-06-2005 12:53 PM


Re: This story is growing legs
Yep.
Get to the part where you think Rove is involved and why?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 12:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 07-06-2005 1:07 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 28 by Silent H, posted 07-06-2005 2:14 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 38 of 271 (223333)
07-12-2005 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by RAZD
07-11-2005 8:25 PM


Re: This story is growing legs
Exposing a criminal illegally and protecting a criminal illegally are both...well, illegal.

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by RAZD, posted 07-11-2005 8:25 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Silent H, posted 07-12-2005 8:34 AM Tal has replied
 Message 65 by RAZD, posted 07-12-2005 8:16 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 41 of 271 (223345)
07-12-2005 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Silent H
07-12-2005 8:34 AM


Re: This story is growing legs
quote:
What did Deep Throat do which was inherently illegal, and especially that which is not currently understood to be acceptable given our current protections for whistle blowers?
He ordered the break-in of Vietnam protesters' offices, Weather Underground. He was convicted, later pardoned for this.
Protecting a criminal illegally is an additional crime, called conspiracy, obstructing justice and aiding and abetting a crime.
He could have resigned from the FBI and gone to the US Attourney's office (who by the way was already investigating all of that) with his evidence instead of leaking secret information to the press.

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Silent H, posted 07-12-2005 8:34 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Silent H, posted 07-12-2005 10:15 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 72 of 271 (223574)
07-13-2005 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by berberry
07-13-2005 9:33 AM


Since when do Democrats love CIA Agents?
More to follow.

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by berberry, posted 07-13-2005 9:33 AM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Chiroptera, posted 07-13-2005 10:41 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 75 by Silent H, posted 07-13-2005 12:15 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 83 of 271 (223708)
07-14-2005 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Silent H
07-13-2005 4:28 PM


Re: The Public Flagellation of Monk
I'm going to be as nonsarcastic as I can. You attempted to rip apart a career US civil servant, who up until Bush and Co decided to go after him for disagreeing with their intel, was highly regarded by both sides.
Except that the Senate Intelligence Comitte exposed him as a fraud.

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Silent H, posted 07-13-2005 4:28 PM Silent H has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by docpotato, posted 07-14-2005 11:52 AM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 85 of 271 (223733)
07-14-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by docpotato
07-14-2005 11:52 AM


Re: The Public Flagellation of Monk
The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address....
The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."
According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.
Still, it was the CIA that bore the brunt of the criticism of the Niger intelligence. The panel found that the CIA has not fully investigated possible efforts by Iraq to buy uranium in Niger to this day, citing reports from a foreign service and the U.S. Navy about uranium from Niger destined for Iraq and stored in a warehouse in Benin.
The agency did not examine forged documents that have been widely cited as a reason to dismiss the purported effort by Iraq until months after it obtained them. The panel said it still has "not published an assessment to clarify or correct its position on whether or not Iraq was trying to purchase uranium from Africa."
Washington Post
This message has been edited by Tal, 07-14-2005 12:49 PM

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by docpotato, posted 07-14-2005 11:52 AM docpotato has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Silent H, posted 07-14-2005 1:39 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 92 of 271 (223761)
07-14-2005 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Silent H
07-14-2005 1:39 PM


Re: The Public Flagellation of Monk
Let's review.
Did Karl Rove commit an alledged crime?
According to the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act a crime has been committed only if someone knowingly reveals an undercover agent...In Wilson's book, "The Politics of Truth," he writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse was again stationed outside the United States, according to the book; they appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.
Six years later, in July 2003, Plame's name was revealed by columnist Robert Novak (search)
The column's date is important because the law against unmasking the identities of U.S. spies says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say. Wilson's book makes numerous references to the couple's life in Washington over the six years up to July 2003.
The answer is no.
Did Karl Rove specifically name Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame?
Although Time reporter Matthew Cooper has indicated Rove did not specifically name Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, during their conversation, Wilson said: "My wife's name is Wilson, it's Mrs. Joseph Wilson. It is Valerie Wilson. He named her. He identified her ... so that argument doesn't stand the smell test.
The answer is no.
So no crime was committed and Rove didn't mention her by name to anyone.
The real question here is why is Judith Miller of the New York times wasting away in a cell protecting her source? Who is she protecting? Certainly not Rove! Rove has committed no crime, but the New York times has. The New York Times is obstructing a federal investigation that they demanded.
This message has been edited by Tal, 07-14-2005 02:09 PM

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Silent H, posted 07-14-2005 1:39 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by FliesOnly, posted 07-14-2005 5:10 PM Tal has replied
 Message 102 by Silent H, posted 07-15-2005 5:05 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 107 of 271 (223889)
07-15-2005 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by FliesOnly
07-14-2005 5:10 PM


Re: The Public Flagellation of Lefties
Well technically its not even alledged since HE HASN'T EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME! The prosecuter has said Rove is not a target!!!
The President said he would fire anyone in his administation that leaked the name.
Wrong again. Go find the President's quote.
WASHINGTON Chief presidential adviser Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer, but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources, according to a person briefed on the testimony.
OWNED!
And guess what? That's right, a New York Times Editor is SITTING IN JAIL FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!!!!!
Time for all of you left wing head-hunters to look somewhere else. You are just making yourselves look really stupid (much like the media) by keeping with this story.
This message has been edited by Tal, 07-15-2005 09:00 AM

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by FliesOnly, posted 07-14-2005 5:10 PM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by FliesOnly, posted 07-15-2005 9:43 AM Tal has replied
 Message 111 by Silent H, posted 07-15-2005 10:39 AM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 110 of 271 (223904)
07-15-2005 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by FliesOnly
07-15-2005 9:43 AM


Re: The Public Flagellation of Lefties
Show me your sources Flies, then responde to each one of these per Message 107:
1. The prosecutor has said Rove is not a target of any investigation.
2. ...Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he talked with two journalists before they divulged the identity of an undercover CIA officer, but that he originally learned about the operative from the news media and not government sources...
So if Karl Rove has testified under oath to a grand jury that he learned the name from the MEDIA, what does that do to your position?
3. Why did a federal judge send Judith Miller to JAIL for obstruction of justice, which by the way the New York Times called for the investigation?

I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong
Do you know what your DNC stands for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by FliesOnly, posted 07-15-2005 9:43 AM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by FliesOnly, posted 07-15-2005 11:59 AM Tal has replied

  
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