Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8896 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-23-2019 4:26 AM
36 online now:
caffeine, frako, PaulK, Tangle (4 members, 32 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,573 Year: 3,610/19,786 Month: 605/1,087 Week: 195/212 Day: 10/27 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Wohlberg: Exploding the Israel Deception
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 1008 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 1 of 5 (221605)
07-04-2005 5:21 AM


I recently found a book by Steve Wohlberg called "Exploding the Israel Deception". This book, written by a Christian Jew, is something of an antithesis to the Lindsey concept/interpetation of the book of Revelations (and Daniel). In this book he challenges the idea that the tribulation, the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, etc. are not biblical concepts but instead recent inventions and distortions of important concepts.

Obviously, I am not a Christian. But I found some of his arguments interesting. He claims that the whole idea of a seven year tribulation stems from a misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27 "He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"

So, I ask Christians out there, does he have a point?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 07-04-2005 6:27 PM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded
 Message 4 by randman, posted 07-06-2005 2:06 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

    
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 5 (221709)
07-04-2005 5:51 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14750
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 3 of 5 (221722)
07-04-2005 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lithodid-Man
07-04-2005 5:21 AM


Speaking as a non-Christian wwith some familiarity with the issues, I think that it may be a mixed bag here.

The Tribulation is from Mark and Matthew (e.g. Mark 13) - and they do imply a link to Daniel. But they don't give a duration. However they do state that the tribulation is to begin with "the Abomination that causes Desolation" (Mark 13:14), which Daniel 9:27 puts in the "midst" of the "seven". Daniel 12:12 indicates that there will only be 1335 days from the Abomination, until the end The only reference that could be interpreted as givng a period of close to 7 years is Daniel 8:13-14 (2300 days).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-04-2005 5:21 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

    
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2976 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 4 of 5 (222053)
07-06-2005 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lithodid-Man
07-04-2005 5:21 AM


he has a point
But the interpretation comes from much more than Daniel. Nevertheless, there is imo a gross misinterpretation of the Book of Revelation by the pre-Trib rapture folks.

Plus, Paul said Jesus would return on the last trump, not the first.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lithodid-Man, posted 07-04-2005 5:21 AM Lithodid-Man has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 07-06-2005 12:08 PM randman has not yet responded

  
Mr. Ex Nihilo
Member (Idle past 4626 days)
Posts: 708
Joined: 04-12-2005


Message 5 of 5 (222147)
07-06-2005 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by randman
07-06-2005 2:06 AM


Re: he has a point
Good point.

And, for the record, the last trumpet sounds off right around here in Revelation 11:15...

NIV writes:

The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Paul earlier says in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53...

NIV writes:

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed -- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

This seems to measure up with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17...

NIV writes:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This seems to measure up with Matthew 24:31...

NIV writes:

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This seems to measure up with Daniel 12:1-3...

NIV writes:

"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people - everyone whose name is found written in the book - will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

I too am concerned that those who believe they will be raptured away so as to not face tribulation may be sorely dissapointed by the tribulation they find themselves in. I suspect that many will loose their faith because the rapture "didn't" happen like they thought it would.

KJV writes:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 07-09-2005 02:08 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by randman, posted 07-06-2005 2:06 AM randman has not yet responded

    
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019