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Author Topic:   Are elephants siblings of dolphins?
asianhunk
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 14 (221107)
07-01-2005 8:47 AM


I've seen a television programme on evolution which showed the biological roots of elephants and dolphins and they seemed to share a common ancestor. They later developed the dissimilarity we see today as adaptations due to the different environments, land vs sea.
Is this possible?

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 14 (221134)
07-01-2005 11:30 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 3 of 14 (221136)
07-01-2005 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by asianhunk
07-01-2005 8:47 AM


Yes it is possible. Elephants aren't that closely related to dolphins, though. Hippos are the closest relatives among land animals.

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kjsimons
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Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 4 of 14 (221141)
07-01-2005 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by asianhunk
07-01-2005 8:47 AM


Yep! Fact is, it appears that all life may share a common ancestor. In other words not only do elephants and dolphins share a common ancestor, if you go back far enough they may also share a comman ancestor with an Oak tree!

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Modulous
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Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 5 of 14 (221145)
07-01-2005 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
07-01-2005 11:32 AM


Hippo?
Are you sure, isn't the Hyrax the closest relative to the elephant? Its not important to your central point though.
With regards to the OP, whether or not it is possible is the integral part of the creation/evolution debate
This message has been edited by Modulous, Fri, 01-July-2005 05:11 PM

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 6 of 14 (221147)
07-01-2005 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
07-01-2005 11:56 AM


Re: Hippo?
I see the ambiguity - to clarify, hippos are the closest relation to dolphins among the land animals.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 7 of 14 (221159)
07-01-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by asianhunk
07-01-2005 8:47 AM


Look up the cows, man.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 8 of 14 (221170)
07-01-2005 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by asianhunk
07-01-2005 8:47 AM


According to recent DNA and morphological work (Liu et al., Science, vol 291 pp 1786-1789, for instance) dolphins and whales are most closely related to the artiodactyls - the cloven-hoofed critters like pigs, cows, and hippos, and somewhat more distantly to horses and rhinoceroses. Elephants are way distant among the placental mammals, but elephants are apparently quite closely related to dugongs and manatees.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 14 (221177)
07-01-2005 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coragyps
07-01-2005 2:20 PM


You'll still sometimes see the theory that whales evolved from mesonychids, ancient hoofed carnivores (carnivorous deer -- how cool is that!). However, Some people seem to think that the line that led to cetaceans (whales and such) were not directly descended from the mesonychids -- rather mesonychids split from the artiodactyl line early on, but pakicetus, a probable whale ancestor, split off later but close enough that they still retained some mesonychid features.

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asianhunk
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 14 (221609)
07-04-2005 6:45 AM


Thanks
Thank you for your replies. I will think and research a bit more about this.

  
asianhunk
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 14 (221615)
07-04-2005 7:43 AM


Dolphin to manatee to elephant
I'm a bit perplexed: If dolphins are closely related to dugongs, manatees and hippos, and dugongs, manatees and hippos are closely related to elephants, then aren't dolphins closely related to elephants?
My thinking is some paleomastodons became dolphins during the aquatic ape period, whenever that was.What do others think?

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 12 of 14 (221620)
07-04-2005 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by asianhunk
07-04-2005 7:43 AM


Re: Dolphin to manatee to elephant
I think you've misunderstood the answers a bit:
Dolphins are (relatively) closely related to hippos.
Manatees and dugongs are (relatively) closely related to elephants.
Mammoths and mastodons would be even more closely related to elephants than manatees or dugongs.
This page has a diagram:
Eutheria
Dophins are in Cetacea
Hippos in Artiodactyla
Dugongs and Manatees in Sirenia
Elephants (and Mastodons) in Proboscidea
The diagram is 10 years old and could be revised to nest cetacea within Artiodactyla at the next update (the fossil evidence that clinched the relationship was not known when the diagram was drawn)

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 13 of 14 (221677)
07-04-2005 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by asianhunk
07-04-2005 7:43 AM


Re: Dolphin to manatee to elephant
Sorry - I was a little unclear in my response. Dolphins aren't at all closely related to manatees, and hippos are not at all close to elephants. The article I cited above is free online at Science | AAAS if you register and then use their search engine to dig it out: the pdf version of the paper has a pretty detailed family tree for all placental mammals, so you can also see how aardvarks and solenodons fit in amongst our cousins.

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latsot
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 14 (222798)
07-09-2005 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by asianhunk
07-04-2005 7:43 AM


Re: Dolphin to manatee to elephant
Think of it as a tree rather than a straight line - to find out how species a and b are related, you travel down the tree to find species c, which links them both. This is obviously the common ancestor of both.
Is this close? depends on context, obviously.

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