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Author Topic:   Terrorism in London
CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6500 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 305 of 313 (223587)
07-13-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Chiroptera
07-13-2005 10:50 AM


Re: Naw..its not Islamic religious law...
If one reads the liberal press strictly, one will not at all get the impression that the democracy the US is introducing is popular. But if you read iraqi bloggers, as I have, if one reads iraqi papers (some are trnaslated), as I have, read other press, as i do, one gets a very different picture. The evidence is that 8 millipn iraqis defied the islamists and voted, despite all the threats and suicide bombings aimed at them by the jihadis.
Of course, iraqis have their pride. Any people would feel awful just to have needed a foreign nation to rescue them from a home-grown tyrant, and needed a foreign nation to being them the democracy that so innately appeals. So, sure, they want the US out...kind of. because what the polls say is that they want the US to leave asap, but NOT before then.
Islamic extremism was present at the faith's birth. It has waxed and waned over the centuries, mainly waxed - because of the Koran's War Verses. I would agree that the west's 20th century imperialism was a factor in a resurgence, as was a response to the oppression of Arab authoritarianism. And yet, one needs to realize that the ottoman Empire was islamic, and, right up to its demise not quite 100 years ago, it was intruding on Western nations. In other words, while we tend to see the west as the imperialists, we fail to understand that the Islamic world was no less, and possibly, more imperialist. The real issue is that, in the end, we won. Our victory not only was humiliating in and of itself, but to the faithful it was a religious horror: Islam is supposed to dominate the world, not the judeo-Christian west.
In any event, the US has not been an imperialist power in their world. That is, before Iraq the US hadn't invaded. So, Gulf War one was with teh agreement of other Arab nations who were afraid of Hussein. The US went to war to defend and free muslims in the Balkans, the oppositie of imperialism. After Gulf War one the US maintained troops in saudi Arabia at that regime's request, to,protect it against a possibly resurgent hussein. That excised the isalmists, because for thatr eason, and with respect to other US activities in their region, they saw, perhaps rightfully, the US as an obstacle to their goal of taking over Arabia and the rest of the islamic world.
What is true, however, is that the US has supported repressive regimes for many reasons:
* for the sake of stability to protect oil supplies,
* as an alternative to the islamists.
* as an enemy of my enemy (Communism) strategy
Bush has now repudiated that policy and says repression is not acceptable, and that democracy, not Islamism, is the alternative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Chiroptera, posted 07-13-2005 10:50 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Chiroptera, posted 07-13-2005 12:29 PM CanadianSteve has replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6500 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 307 of 313 (223592)
07-13-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Chiroptera
07-13-2005 12:29 PM


Re: Naw..its not Islamic religious law...
The liberal press is denoted by the MSM, as discussed by Bernard Goldberg, a former key CBS exec who has been writing extensively about its biased agenda.
Theer are dozens of papers in Iraq. the only ones suppressed are islamist papers.
If you care to do a complete investigation, you will find a huge muber of sources that contradict your selective ones.
And , again, consider that 8 million iraqis defied the isalmists to vote. that says it all.
Your nation is in the process of creating a miracle: turning an oppressed police state into a multicultural liberal democracy, from which a democratic revolution will sweep an entire region of the globe, bringing peace to us all. You should be very very proud. Would that my cowardly, small-minded nation had had the courage to help.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Chiroptera, posted 07-13-2005 12:29 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by Chiroptera, posted 07-13-2005 1:32 PM CanadianSteve has replied
 Message 310 by NosyNed, posted 07-13-2005 1:54 PM CanadianSteve has not replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6500 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 312 of 313 (223626)
07-13-2005 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Chiroptera
07-13-2005 1:32 PM


Re: Naw..its not Islamic religious law...
You haev a remarkably insistent bias.
Here's two articles, one from july 2003, the other very recent, amongst many, that support what i said:
Iraqis Begin Warming to US Presence
By Scott Peterson
Staff writer
The Christian Science Monitor
Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
Tuesday, July 1, 2003
A recent poll shows nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents want the US to stay until Iraq is stable.
MSNBC
Updated: 11:09 a.m. ET June 29, 2005
Expert: Most Iraqis want U.S. to stay
Phares says the key to winning Iraqi hearts is winning leadership minds
While Americans were President Bush's primary target audience for his nationally televised address to the nation on Tuesday, Iraqis were also very interested in what he had to say.
Walid Phares, a terrorism expert for MSNBC and senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy, joined MSNBC's Amy Robach on Wednesday to discuss how Bush's words may be playing in Baghdad, Basra and all around Iraq.
"Days ago I had met with the (Iraqi) prime minister at a meeting here in Washington and a number of senior officials, both religious and secular, and they told me the same story that we found this morning in the Iraqi/Baghdad press, which was that most Iraqis are concerned about an abrupt withdrawal from Iraq, because that would cause a collapse in their security system," Phares said.
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos

This message is a reply to:
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