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Author Topic:   Moral Argument for God
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 11 of 279 (224670)
07-19-2005 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
07-19-2005 9:48 AM


Apologists wrong, as usual.
The claim that morality cannot exist without belief in an archaic mythology is simply false. By my own existence as an atheist and a man of exemplary moral character, my existence (as well as the vast number of moral atheists out there) I disprove the first premise. Thus, the entire argument is invalid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 07-19-2005 9:48 AM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Chiroptera, posted 07-19-2005 5:03 PM mikehager has replied
 Message 19 by robinrohan, posted 07-19-2005 6:10 PM mikehager has replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 14 of 279 (224674)
07-19-2005 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
07-19-2005 4:34 PM


Re: a little support for the argument
As Yaro pointed out, you are wrong about animal behavior and how social structures and mutual cooperation can be highly beneficial to an organism.
We are creatures who, like many other species, behave in a social way because it has evolved in us and that in no way means we have "stepped outside nature".
Altruism, which is at the very heart of morality, is an evolved trait in us just as it is in wolves. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends," we are told in one of the many holy books. It is unsurprising that the morals that work also obey the iron law of survival of the species by being about altruism, self sacrifice for the group, and the protection of the young, among many other things. If they didn't we would have evolved another scheme that did, or died out.
What is called morality is easily explicable by only the world that can be observed. To add an element, especially an element that is invisible and beyond proof or reason, is of no use and should be avoided.

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 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-19-2005 4:34 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 16 of 279 (224678)
07-19-2005 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Chiroptera
07-19-2005 5:03 PM


Re: Apologists wrong, as usual.
You are correct, such a claim may be made and may be the one being put forth here.
First, the claim that I secretly believe in some deity is false. The only source of information about the content of my mind is me and no one is in a position to gainsay me on my declarations concerning it, as I told kendemeyer repeatedly (to no avail).
As to the second claim, that god is present in me without my knowledge, that is an unprovable assertion and therefore useless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Chiroptera, posted 07-19-2005 5:03 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 21 of 279 (224689)
07-19-2005 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by robinrohan
07-19-2005 6:10 PM


Re: Apologists wrong, as usual.
Yes. I certainly do. I have no criminal record. I have committed no crimes that aren't victimless (such as speeding). I sacrifice for the good of others in various ways. I am honest and care for people in my locality. I am the best, most loyal friend you will ever have if you are so lucky as to earn my regard. I have a carefully considered moral code that I adhere to strenuously.
So, yes. In fact I, while not being without fault (arrogance and not suffering fools gladly being two big ones), am an example that anyone would benefit from following.
Of course, being an Atheist is a big part of my excellent morals.
If you have the temerity to disagree with me, I would have to ask you to prove it and when you fail, I would have to insist that you apologize.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by robinrohan, posted 07-19-2005 6:10 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by robinrohan, posted 07-19-2005 7:36 PM mikehager has not replied

  
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