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Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Islam conducive to science and democracy | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Tal Member (Idle past 5704 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
How was the Black Death finally conquered? Declared David Riesman, Professor of the History of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania: "Isolation of the sick and quarantine came into use. These practices not only eliminated the plague as a pandemic menace for the first time in history but also led to general laws against infectious diseases, thereby laying the foundations upon which modern hygiene rests" (Medicine in the Middle Ages, p. 260). States Dr. D. T. Atkinson, "in the Bible greater stress was placed upon prevention of disease than was given to the treatment of bodily ailments, and in this no race of people, before or since, has left us such a wealth of laws relative to hygiene and sanitation as the Hebrews. These important laws, coming down through the ages, are still used to a marked degree in every country in the world sufficiently enlightened to observe them. One has but to read the book of Leviticus carefully and thoughtfully to conclude that the admonitions of Moses contained therein are, in fact, the groundwork of most of today's sanitary laws. As one closes the book, he must, regardless of his spiritual leanings, feel that the wisdom therein expressed regarding the rules to protect health are superior to any which then existed in the world and that to this day they have been little improved upon" (Magic, Myth and Medicine, Atkinson, p. 20). I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong Do you know what your DNC stands for?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Did the Bible get written? If so then folk were taking care of themselves before the Bible.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5704 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Did the Bible get written? If so then folk were taking care of themselves before the Bible. Proof? Evidence? Got an older document that spells out quarantine procedures in deatail? I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong Do you know what your DNC stands for?
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No more on this. We are dealing with Islam in this thread.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5704 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Just making a correction.
I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong Do you know what your DNC stands for?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
uh, for something to be a "correction" it has to be correct.
judaism may indeed advocate separation of the sick, but christianity does not.
quote: quote: a leper with the multitude, and sick person at home. no quarantine there. i might point out that this leper was breaking judaic law too. the first modern hospital, instituting the idea of keeping the sick separate (until they got well, not just the "40 days," the origin of the word "quaratine") was built under the direction of a roman, galen, who worked in rome well before christian influence. which means that separation of the sick in modern medicine developed independantly of christianity.
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Tal Member (Idle past 5704 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
a leper with the multitude, and sick person at home. no quarantine there. i might point out that this leper was breaking judaic law too. Wait a minute, are you using a source that you believe to be false to prove a point? Wow. Well, here's the counter.
a leper with the multitude, and sick person at home. no quarantine there. i might point out that this leper was breaking judaic law too. The bible (assuming you think it is true) doesn't list the people's nationalities.
the first modern hospital, instituting the idea of keeping the sick separate (until they got well, not just the "40 days," the origin of the word "quaratine") was built under the direction of a roman, galen, who worked in rome well before christian influence. Bible still has you beat.
"It is most singular that a description of leprosy, as found in the thirteenth chapter of Leviticus, could have been written so long before our time. It is to be noticed that such an accurate description of this dread malady as it appears in the Biblical narrative is not to be found in the literature of any nation for the next seventeen hundred years" (ibid; p. 25-26). I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong Do you know what your DNC stands for?
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Sorry to drop out suddenly. I got a chance to do something major with my apartment and I am taking it, so it'll probably be a couple days till I come back. My guess is Monday.
For Tal, I said that reliance on the Bible led to some problems for those during the plagues. Although quarantine may have been mentioned in the Bible, and it may have helped a bit in preventing the spread of a disease, treatment was not aided and indeed hindered. People suffering were made to suffer more. holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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Tal Member (Idle past 5704 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
For Tal, I said that reliance on the Bible led to some problems for those during the plagues. Although quarantine may have been mentioned in the Bible, and it may have helped a bit in preventing the spread of a disease, treatment was not aided and indeed hindered. Balavignus was a distinguished Jewish physician who lived during the first part of the 14th century in Europe. He lived at a time when London and Paris were reeking with garbage and filth -- when refuse was simply thrown in the gutter and left to stink. Balavignus was a student of the Old Testament and was familiar with the medical information set forth in it. When the Black Death broke out in 1346 and swept through Europe, like a hurricane, killing millions, Balavignus saw that the miserable sanitation throughout Europe was a major factor in the quick spread of the disease. He instituted a cleanup movement among the Jews of Strassburg. He had all refuse burned. The rats consequently left the Jewish ghettos and moved into the Gentile sectors of the city. As a result, the Jews' mortality rate from the plague was only five percent of what it was among their non-Jewish neighbors! This striking fact did not go unnoticed by their superstitious Gentile neighbors. The general population soon saw the difference, and were amazed. But instead of emulating the Jewish hygienic measures, the surrounding people began to suspect the Jews of causing the plague by poisoning their wells! As a result, a general massacre was launched. Balavignus himself, persecuted and tortured, was finally compelled to "confess" that he and others were "responsible" for the frightful disease! How was the Black Death finally conquered? Declared David Riesman, Professor of the History of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania: "Isolation of the sick and quarantine came into use. These practices not only eliminated the plague as a pandemic menace for the first time in history but also led to general laws against infectious diseases, thereby laying the foundations upon which modern hygiene rests" (Medicine in the Middle Ages, p. 260).
I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrong Do you know what your DNC stands for?
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Trixie Member (Idle past 3733 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: |
You claimed that the Bible aided in "curing", not in limiting or erradicating. Can you address this please? As I pointed out, stopping people getting sick doesn't "cure" a disease, you have to be sick to be cured. Therefore your example of quarantine isn't a cure and can't be used as evidence for Biblical text helping to cure disease.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Wait a minute, are you using a source that you believe to be false to prove a point? Wow. no, tal. i'm a christian.
The bible (assuming you think it is true) doesn't list the people's nationalities. no, but it does command that lepers be kept quarantined: you're entire point. i don't need to actually cite the verse to you, do i? the leper was breaking judaic law to go see jesus. he was out with crowd. that's a big no-no. and jesus cured him. not the quarantine.
Bible still has you beat. not in rome, it doesn't. christianity did not become a major influence until emporer constantine adopted it as the official state religion in early 4th century ad -- 150-200 years after galen. which means that in the western world, the one run for a thousand years by the roman catholic church, the practice of quarantining the sick is there before and without the bible.
"It is most singular that a description of leprosy, as found in the thirteenth chapter of Leviticus, could have been written so long before our time. It is to be noticed that such an accurate description of this dread malady as it appears in the Biblical narrative is not to be found in the literature of any nation for the next seventeen hundred years" (ibid; p. 25-26). i've read the thirteenth chapter of leviticus. and the 14th. care to tell me how a house can catch leprosy? a garment? these are part of leviticus's "accurate" description.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You didn't post the source for the following but it appears that like many Literalists, the author never read the Bible.
"It is most singular that a description of leprosy, as found in the thirteenth chapter of Leviticus, could have been written so long before our time. It is to be noticed that such an accurate description of this dread malady as it appears in the Biblical narrative is not to be found in the literature of any nation for the next seventeen hundred years" (ibid; p. 25-26). Let's take a look at what is in Leviticus 13.
Author of Leviticus writes: 2: When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or a bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests:3: And the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean. Now what the hell does that mean? That could describe many different things. And what does "Deeper than the skin of his flesh" mean?
24: Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white; Reddish. Right. Or White. Got it.
29: If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard; 30: Then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard. Leprosy of the beard. Right. And yellow hair? I guess that's the Bearded Lady.
47: The garment also that the plague of leprosy is in, whether it be a woollen garment, or a linen garment; 48: Whether it be in the warp, or woof; of linen, or of woollen; whether in a skin, or in any thing made of skin; 49: And if the plague be greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a plague of leprosy, and shall be shewed unto the priest: 50: And the priest shall look upon the plague, and shut up it that hath the plague seven days: 51: And he shall look on the plague on the seventh day: if the plague be spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in a skin, or in any work that is made of skin; the plague is a fretting leprosy; it is unclean. 52: He shall therefore burn that garment, whether warp or woof, in woollen or in linen, or any thing of skin, wherein the plague is: for it is a fretting leprosy; it shall be burnt in the fire. Leprosy of the Tartan. Yup. I had a sweater like that once. Scared the dickens out of me. Must be Angoraphobia. Sorry, the author never bothered to read the Bible. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
If one reads most modern translations of the Bible, like the NIV or NRSV, the translators take great pains that leprosy actually can refer to a large number of skin diseases, not just what we today characterize as infection by the Mycobacterium leprae bacterium. So one could conclude that the description in the Old Testament isn't such a great description of leprosy.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Of course it's not a good description or diagnostic. It wasn't meant to be and Leviticus isn't about diagnosing illness, it's about deciding who can come into the temple and join in community.
Folk that try to make it into science simply miss the whole point of the Bible. But let's try to get back towards Islam, science and democracy. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
the translators take great pains that leprosy actually can refer to a large number of skin diseases, not just what we today characterize as infection by the Mycobacterium leprae bacterium. yes, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of well, anything can piece that together. houses can get leprosy? and not just "house" in the sense of a family, but the building itself? a large deal of "leprosy" infections appear to fungal.
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