Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,422 Year: 3,679/9,624 Month: 550/974 Week: 163/276 Day: 3/34 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Bones of Contentions.
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 240 (225899)
07-24-2005 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jcrawford
07-24-2005 1:01 AM


Neo-Darwinst theories about the origin and evolution of species are a form of scientific racism when applied to any or all members of the human race
a classical example of the perils of applying darwinian thought to humanity is social darwinism. they took the name, but not the thought itself, from darwin -- they were just trying to justify their extreme views. part of the problem was that people don't obey the laws of nature in the wild, per se. and money is not an indication of success, genetically speaking. these were logicall fallacies in the idealogy.
dividing and separating our human ancestors into different species reduces and degrades them to an inferior and unequal biological status
this is also not true, the first major fallacy here. the number one idea of darwinism is common ancestry: the interconnection of all life. since we are ALL current end results, all are equally successful evolutionarily speaking. there is NOTHING in darwinism that says one species is "better" in some human terms than another unless one of the two is dead. racism is being read into it, or it is being used to justify racism -- but it in and of itself is not racism.
It is a form of scientific racism to theorize that Middle Eastern and European Neanderthal people and Homo erectus people in Asia and Africa were not fully human but were rather an evolutionary subspecies of humanity which became extinct
so we're arguing against racism -- wait, no -- SPECIESISM against species that no longer exist? h. neandertals and h. erectus are not even h. sapiens (cromagnon) let alone h. sapiens sapiens (us). this is not the same as saying "people from africa came from inferior stock." this "inferior stock" is as unrelated the these specific modern populations as anyone else is. some species that came from them advanced beyond them, and overtook their population. everywhere. everyone alive today is of and from the same species.
only a small amount of neandertal dna (as they DID interbreed) arguably exists in the gene pool. and the people who arguably have these "inferior" genes aren't commonly targets of racism at all.
It is a racist scenario to theorize that both European and Middle Eastern Neanderthals and Asian Homo erectus types of people were eliminated and replaced by more highly evolved Homo sapiens who originally migrated from Africa
but this is exactly what the evidence very strongly indicates happened. although noticeably minus the "higher evolved" bit -- h. sapiens was actually LESS adapted to its environment than the species it replaces. for instance, neandertals were BUILT for cold weather: short and stocky, very round. probably light skinned. h. sapiens was build for warm weather: long and tall, and skinny. probably dark skinned. (note: these are the opposite skin colors that used to be depicted in "racist" textbooks)
what h. sapiens had that made it more effective was sort of an evolutionary short-cut. cheating so to speak. it had a larger brain. that meant that it did not have to out evolve the more highly-adapted neandertals. it just had to do things a little smarter.
and didn’t or wouldn’t interbreed with other humans simply because evolutionists label them as a separate species of humans who couldn’t sexually reproduce with other humans even if they wanted to.
this is also evidently not true. we have fossilized remains of children who seemed to have shared both neandertal and h. sapiens parentage in a smooth combination of features. they could, in fact, interbreed. like i said, some argue that there is still neandertal dna in our gene pool. my guess is that we both probably have a little if this is true.
however, there is very, very little evidence that this happened often. so it's thought that they didn't interbreed by choice. perhaps they just didn't find short hairy women attractive? we seem to sexually select for women with little to no body hair today. this could be why.
It is a form of scientific racism against people of Muslim, Jewish and Christian ancestry and descent who believe that some human ancestors were descendants of Abraham and that all of their human ancestors were descended from Noah's family, to theorize that Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus Christ shared common genealogical ancestry with a mythological Homo sapiens woman named Eve in Africa who is theoretically associated, identified, categorized and classified with a species of hon-human primates who are then also claimed to have evolved from some other non-human "species" in Africa.
that's just bs now. first of all, "eve" was a biblical reference -- not actually the eve of the bible. they gave her that name because she appeared to be the mother of all mankind. and if she's h. sapiens, that makes her human.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jcrawford, posted 07-24-2005 1:01 AM jcrawford has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Chiroptera, posted 07-24-2005 11:46 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 24 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 12:48 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 13 of 240 (225944)
07-24-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Chiroptera
07-24-2005 11:46 AM


The last I heard, that was still a controversial conclusion. Has the scientific consensus changed?
i dunno. i suppose i could be wrong.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Chiroptera, posted 07-24-2005 11:46 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Chiroptera, posted 07-24-2005 2:46 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 15 of 240 (225979)
07-24-2005 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Chiroptera
07-24-2005 2:46 PM


me neither -- just something i saw on tv once. the skeleton they showed appeared to be real fossils and somewhere between the two species. i'll give it a look when i get home (at work now)

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Chiroptera, posted 07-24-2005 2:46 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 22 of 240 (226002)
07-24-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Chiroptera
07-24-2005 4:01 PM


These are facts, and they are not in dispute. It is not racism to point out these facts, unless one decides to make up an aribitrary definition of racism.
one could make the claim that racism is present in society -- but not that studying society is racist.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 07-24-2005 4:01 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 25 of 240 (226087)
07-25-2005 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by John Ponce
07-25-2005 12:48 AM


Re: Brain Size...
Since brain size is roughly proportional to physical stature, are NBA players smarter than horse jockeys? Are large men on average smarter than small women? Are Pygmies less intelligent than white boys with bigger heads?
what i meant was that homo sapiens tended to have proportionally larger brains (compared to body size) than neandertals.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 12:48 AM John Ponce has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 1:19 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 37 by John Ponce, posted 07-26-2005 10:41 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 240 (226089)
07-25-2005 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by John Ponce
07-25-2005 1:19 AM


Re: Brain Size...
"compared to body size."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 1:19 AM John Ponce has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 2:12 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 31 of 240 (226102)
07-25-2005 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by jcrawford
07-25-2005 2:26 AM


quote tags
yes. it gets confusing in a hurry.
you can either us the qs or quote tags, much in the same way you would use html tags, but in square brackets. it's tricky to SHOW you, but you can look at the message you're replying to in "peek mode" or hit the peek button just about anything. anyhow, basically, it's done like this, except in square brackets:
{qs}quoted material{/qs} in brackets looks like:
quoted material
{quote}quoted material{/quote} in brackets looks like:
quote:
quoted material
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 07-25-2005 02:44 AM

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jcrawford, posted 07-25-2005 2:26 AM jcrawford has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 36 of 240 (226606)
07-26-2005 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by John Ponce
07-25-2005 2:12 AM


Re: Brain Size...
Arach, have you considered your assertion may be wrong?
If larger brains are smarter, why should you be concerned with the size of the body?
So, assuming as you say, people that have "proportionally" larger heads compared to their bodies are more intelligent. Are you sticking with this? Do you have any evidence?
If so, the Nazis were measuring the wrong parameters in the 1930s for their "superior race", huh?
you're misrepresenting what i've said. i'm speaking on a STRICTLY species average basis, not an individual or racial one.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by John Ponce, posted 07-25-2005 2:12 AM John Ponce has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by John Ponce, posted 07-26-2005 10:49 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 40 of 240 (226617)
07-26-2005 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by John Ponce
07-26-2005 10:49 PM


Re: Brain Size...
no. listen. i'm not talking about individuals. i'm talking about one species being compared to another.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by John Ponce, posted 07-26-2005 10:49 PM John Ponce has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by MangyTiger, posted 07-26-2005 11:31 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 43 of 240 (226622)
07-26-2005 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by MangyTiger
07-26-2005 11:31 PM


Re: Size doesn't matter
i was pretty sure proportion did, though. anyways, i could be wrong.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by MangyTiger, posted 07-26-2005 11:31 PM MangyTiger has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024