Yet, Wilson said "my wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity."She hadn't been covert for 7 years. Got something else? So why aren't you after Novak?Why is a New York times reporter sitting in Jail again?

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I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrongDo you know what your DNC stands for?

yes.

quote:

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But while she may no longer have been a clandestine operative, she was still under protected status. A U.S. official told TIME that Plame was indeed considered covert for the purposes of the Intelligence Identities Protection law. And even if the leak was not illegal, intelligence officials argue, it is not defensible. "I'm beyond disgusted," a CIA official said last week. "I am especially angry about the b_______ explanations that she is not a covert agent. That is an official status, and there are lots of people in this building who are on that status. It's not up to the Republican Party to determine when that status will end for an agent."

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nor, i might add, her husband. before you go off on how time magazine is a biased liberal media source, it may be important to note that wilson is not exactly portrayed in a good light in that article. it ends with a description of him pushing his book.so, it should be noted that while she was not clandestine (ie: in a foreign country, actively engaging in spy activities) her identity was still covert (ie: a secret). these two are different things. if one visits cia headquarters, they have a wall with stars on it. those stars are for fallen agents. there are no name. even after they died, their identities are still secret. i'm not after anyone. i think the whole affair is disgusting, especially the spin-game the right is playing on it.is rove guilty in my mind? yes, he is. so is everyone else involved in the whole thing. the identities of cia operatives is a matter of national security. it could potentially start a war, if a face is recognized. heck, i think even the news sources carrying the story with her identity right now are guilty, including the source i cited above.

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אָרַח

Now we are going to argue over what the definition of is is?Again, Novak called the CIA and they didn't tell him not to print her name. She wasn't clandestine, secret, undercover, or any other term you think you can use.Joe Wilson named his own wife on his own website. Joe Wilson is the leaker!I know your response to this, "But Tal, Joe Wilson didn't say, she's an undercover CIA agent."Neither did Karl Rove. He said, "I think she worked for the CIA."And again CNN since you somehow won't believe anything Fox saysThat is cut and dry.This message has been edited by Tal, 07-21-2005 01:28 PM

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I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrongDo you know what your DNC stands for?

Monk, just to let you know, I will be back to answer your reply. I have just gotten very busy with a home project and don't have time. I should definitely have something by next Monday at the latest.Tal, the CIA told Novak not to print her identity. Even Movak says this. The fact that you continue to repeat that false statement is telling. The lawyer you quoted did not suggest the CIA had not done this, it was that they ONLY told him not to print her identity and didn't do anything else like call his boss or something, which he is arguing should be read as saying it isn't important.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Ah yes, home projects. I always seem to have a few I never get around to either. Anyway, no hurry on the response. I'll be on vacation next week.P.S. - I've been given strict instructions by my better half, no computers while on vacation.This message has been edited by Monk, Thu, 07-21-2005 02:18 PM

yes, actually. words have meanings. covert status is an official status of the cia. for all i care, wilson could have set up rove. not that that sounds like something that would have happened -- whatever your opinion of rove, he's smarter than that.but "i think she worked for the cia." as what, a janitor? rove was implying that wilson got the assignment because of a contact at the cia -- his wife. this contact would have to have had a good deal of influence. in other words, she wasn't the secretary. like i said, the people we spy against are not retarded.think joe wilson's guilty? yeah, me too. if not of anything criminal, of miling the situation like a cash cow. yes, and? they're guilty too. is my line of reasoning hard to follow? what makes one person who divulges the identy of a covert operative guilty, but another innocent? a government employee, no matter where he got his information, divulged a covert operative to a media source, who then reported it. these actions are not in question.novak's guilty, rove's guilty, cooper's guilty. actually, that's ap. and when did i say anything about fox, hm?This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 07-21-2005 04:12 PM

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Uh-huh. And when they ask him exactly what media source told him, he said that he "couldn't remember."I don't see any reason to conclude that he's not lying to save his ass, especially since he can't remember what media source told him, and we know he told Cooper long before any story appeared in print. According to the CIA, she was.

and you actually trust the cia? they're hardly exemplar of good christian morality, like karl rove, who never lies.

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אָרַח

Off Topic. Please do not respond to this post

This message has been edited by AdminJar, 07-22-2005 02:40 PM

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I helped scare an old person-I stopped someone from keeping more of their money-So what if people want to have say in the places they live and the cars that they drive-I gave money to an environmental group that helped keep us dependant on foreign oil-I help the enemies of democracy get stronger by telling them laws don’t matter-What if one day I need an abortion-Sex with an intern, everybody does it-I help teach kids around America that America is always wrongDo you know what your DNC stands for?

yes, tal, that is what it feels like talking to you.

Off Topic. Please do not respond to this post

This message has been edited by AdminJar, 07-22-2005 02:39 PM

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אָרַח

ROFLOL. Just spent the time to catch up on this thread, and it is truly humorous to watch the schwubbyites leaping to defence of their heros.and what heros they are.but the news only gets worse for them as time passes:First we get What Did Bush Know, And When Did He Know It? (click)

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Today comes the revelation in The Wall Street Journal that "A key department memo discussing Joseph Wilson's Niger trip was classified 'Top Secret,' and the passage about his wife's CIA role was specially marked 'S/NF' -- not to be shared with any foreign intelligence agencies."

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Somehow - nobody knows at the moment - the information in this Top Secret-S/NF document (the identity of Joe Wilson's wife) then migrated from Air Force One to George W. Bush's assiswhitet, Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney's assiswhitet, Scooter Libby. Rove and Libby then immediately began "dialing for dollars" - calling reporters with this juicy bit of Top Secret-N/SF information - in an attempt to politically assassinate Joe Wilson.

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and
Conflicting Stories (click)

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White House chief political strategist Karl Rove reportedly told the grand jury that he first learned of Valerie Plame's identity from columnist Robert Novak -- but Novak's version of the story is that Rove already knew about her when the two spoke.

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Rove didn't mention his conversation with Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper to investigators at first and then said it was primarily about welfare reform. But Cooper has testified that the topic of welfare reform didn't came up.

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Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby apparently told prosecutors he first heard about Plame from NBC's Tim Russert, but Russert has testified that he neither offered nor received information about Plame in his conversation with Libby.

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And former White House spokesman Ari Fleischer apparently told prosecutors that he never saw a classified State Department memo that disclosed Plame's identity, but another former official reportedly saw him perusing it on Air Force One.

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and now
Bush aide misled FBI, say reports (click)

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The investigation into the White House leak of a CIA agent's identity is now focusing on whether two top administration officials provided misleading statements to the FBI, it was reported yesterday.

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According to press accounts, Karl Rove, the president's chief political adviser, and Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice-president's chief of staff, both provided testimony that was later contradicted by other evidence.

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The New York Times yesterday reported that at the time of the leak, Mr Rove and Mr Libby had been collaborating on the administration's response to Mr Wilson's central allegation that President George Bush had misled the American public in his January 2003 State of the Union address.

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George Tenet, the director of the CIA at the time, took responsibility for the false claim, helping to draw fire away from the White House, but yesterday's report suggests that Mr Rove and Mr Libby had a role in drafting his public admission.

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The news that the two senior officials were intimately involved in the issue added to scepticism about their claims to have initially heard about Ms Plame from journalists, rather than the other way round.

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Ya mean they lied to the grand jury???

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Anyone still having trouble connecting the dots?

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Enjoy

no, karl rove wouldn't lie, I JUST KNOW IT! he's a fine upstanding young christian man! why would he lie, he's innocent! besides, he's not a target anyways, and he only heard it from reporters and besides it wasn't really a secret at all! everybody else is lying to smear rove, who's really an angel for the lord god himself!mmhmm.this is getting interesting. i wonder if they've finally gotten rove to paint himself into a corner here. i mean, he divulged the identity of a covert agent to a member of the media. no matter where he got his information, that's treason. and in a time of "war" isn't treason an executable offense? but hey, let's throw perjury on top of that!i want to hear bush come out and say "well, we're not technically at war..." i think that would be hillarious.This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 07-23-2005 03:25 PM

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they are naught but the Plumbers.What did the President know and when did he know it?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

it's kind of an old joke, actually, but there's some truth to it. who really runs things around the office?the secretaries.

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אָרַח

Everyone's been making comparisons to Watergate, even calling this scandal RoveGate. Well, now this scandal has its very own gap, only this time it's not just 18 minutes, it's a whole 12 hours!: Gonzales was on CBS' Face The Nation this morning. He dug his hole a bit deeper by revealing that the "only" administration staffer he notified that evening, 12 hours before sending out the official notice, was Andy Card.Hmmmmmmm...

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"I think younger workers first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is." George W. Bush, May 4, 2005