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Author | Topic: Why do you believe what you believe? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hi, Parasomnium.
It's not quite a sophistry; since time supposedly began at the singularity, I can't make sense of what it means for something to have caused the universe to come into existence. To be a "cause" seems to imply existing "prior", but there is no "prior".
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
That the universe may have existed forever? I don't see the logical impossibility of that. That the universe may have "begun" without a cause? That the universe has existed forever makes sense. That the universe began without a cause makes no sense. But if you want to say "it's possible," fine.
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
Sophistry or not, I think we agree. If 'existing' means to occupy time and space, or even just time, then nothing can exist before time and space are created. So nothing can have created the universe. By that definition of existence the universe itself cannot even be said to exist: it would need to occupy space and time, which is what it consist of, not exists in.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
robinrohan writes: That the universe began without a cause makes no sense. Only if you think that everything must have a cause. Maybe that's not the case. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Only if you think that everything must have a cause. Maybe that's not the case. Maybe not. And maybe there's a god. I don't see any reason for accepting one idea over the other. Therefore, it's just as rational to believe in god as not to believe in god. Such beliefs are not on the same level as believing in pixies, which are merely extraneous entities.
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CK Member (Idle past 4155 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
But pixies may have created the universe, then traveled back in time to create themselves.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2920 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
I can accept pixies, but I draw the line at fairies and leprechauns. Everyone's faith has its limits.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You can call it what you like--pixies, fairies, the cosmic egg . . .
But if the universe was created, something had to create it. But there's always the possibility that it has existed forever.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Well, I have a reason for rejecting the hypothesis of God. If there were a God who created the universe, then I would expect some evidence of this God interacting with the universe in some way. Since I have never seen any good evidence that some God is interacting with the universe, I conclude that God, like pixies, is an extraneous entity.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The evidence, such as it is, is that the universe exists, and the speculation is that it used not to (big bang). If that is the case, something had to make it come into existence. That something we label "god." No reason why "god," whatever that is, should "interact."
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I guess I prefer to simply state "I don't know" than to postulate the existence of an entity whose sole purpose for existing is to "explain" this one event. It still seems extraneous to me.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The only way it could be extraneous is if the universe existed always. Otherwise, "god" is the cause of everything. You could hardly call that extraneous.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Uh-oh. We seem to have come around full circle.
Are you are using "god" to mean the unknown, and perhaps unknowable, origin of the universe? Because if you are, then I don't have much objection to what you say. I feel, though, that it may be a bit misleading; when most people talk of "god" and the origin of the universe, they are referring to an intelligent entity that is consciously creating the universe. At any rate, we still haven't determined that universe needs a "cause", even it has only existed for a finite amount of time.
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Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 778 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
Why do I believe what I believe?
Because if I do not believe, then everything that makes my life full and real and good is dead. Without God, my life is hollow, my feelings mean nothing, and what I percieve as real is not real. I have no hope and no reason for living, but my own pleasure... and I've already tried that and I'm not very happy that way. I also trust the information provided to me in the gospels... and I'm learning that Buddhists have realized much truth as well. This makes me think there is one truth that we are all capable of discovering... though not through conceptual thought. I have never experienced a miracle, but I also trust my friends who have described truly supernatural miracles such as God speaking to them or seeing angels and demons. It's not proof, but it helps.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: I can sympathize with this a bit. Although it wasn't quite as bad as you're saying here, losing my faith was not at all a pleasant experience. Which is one of the reasons I have no respect for the claim that somehow people choose not to believe in God.
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