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Author Topic:   All Evolutionary scientists have been Evolutionary Indoctrinated
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 61 of 312 (227846)
07-30-2005 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by randman
07-30-2005 3:12 PM


Nice dodge but I've seen you do better.
That's a nice dodge - not one of the better ones I've seen you do but quite good.
With this statement, you say:
quote:
The fact that many scientists reject evolution is a fact attested to in writing by scientists.
Is a dentist a scientist? Will I be a scientist when I get my PhD?
BTW - Have you found the papers by your professor yet?
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:18 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:12 PM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 62 of 312 (227847)
07-30-2005 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
07-30-2005 12:43 PM


Re: What's so special about you?
One way is to look at the process.
1. Identify known propaganda techniques.
2. Review textbooks, popular TV shows, movies, etc,...and identify which, if any, of these propaganda techniques are being employed.
3. Identify the number of times the average person is exposed to someone claiming or suggesting that evolution is true within a person's lifetime prior to becoming a Phd, and reviewing how many times they have been exposed on average to arguments against evolution.
Obviously, this would take some funding and would be a major study, but I think anyone can reasonably assume if they are being honest with themselves that most people are exposed to massive numbers of messages telling them evolution is true, and very little from the other perspective in comparison.
Probably the reason more Phds believe in evolution has a lot to do with the fact they have been taught to believe, indoctrinated, and their belief system is thus highly coorelated to the amount, intensity, etc,...of the messages they received, along with the pressure to conform in this area.
You've got to remember that science may celebrate some new discoveries, but that's not always the case. Take for example Tesla's claims of over-the-horizon radar. He was thoroughly derided for his claims even though he could and did demonstrate it.
When we rediscovered over-the-horizin radar in the 50s, Tesla was proven right, but there was no mad rush to celebrate the man or look at some of his other claims that were rejected.
It may be that Intelligent Design is the beginning of the crack in the wall, but I suspect regardless of what the evidence, it will take a lot of the current evolutionists dying off and thus losing their tenured positions before ID will be accepted by academia.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 07-30-2005 12:43 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:22 PM randman has not replied
 Message 66 by ringo, posted 07-30-2005 3:33 PM randman has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 63 of 312 (227848)
07-30-2005 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by randman
07-30-2005 3:21 PM


Re: What's so special about you?
Escape to the future:
quote:
You commit this fallacy if you claim that your worldview will soon prevail because the evidence is in the making - your victory is just round the corner. Pseudosciences do this all the time.
So have you got the papers from your professor yet?
Do you have anything to offer us besides onanism?
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:27 PM
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:28 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:21 PM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by lfen, posted 07-30-2005 3:39 PM CK has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 64 of 312 (227849)
07-30-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by randman
07-30-2005 3:01 PM


Re: evidence is important
randman writes:
... you know full well no one here has the individual resources to conduct such a study, and you are merely trying to kill an argument with sophistry.
The point here is to get at the truth of the matter. If the hypothesis dies, it dies. It doesn't matter what killed it.
What do they call that now? Oh yeah. "Science".
That would be interesting, but hardly necessary to hold an intelligent discussion based on what nearly every one of us has experienced in this nation.
Read my lips: I have NOT experienced any such thing and neither have most of the contributors to this discussion.
We are trying to discuss whether or not iano's premise is true. You are assuming from the get-go that it is. Stop it.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:01 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:45 PM ringo has replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 65 of 312 (227851)
07-30-2005 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by iano
07-30-2005 1:30 PM


At least one bogus quote
I don't have the time to research each of these quotes, but I'll offer a rebuttal to the first one.
Professor Louis Bounoure, President of the Biologial Society of Strasbourg and Director of the Strasbourg Zoological Museum before becoming Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific research said (rather witheringly):
"Evolutionism is a fairy-tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless"
(Cited in The Advocate, 8th March 1984. P.17)
E.T. Babinski actually contacted French authorities. They revealed that Louis Bounoure never served as Director or even a member of the CNRS. He was a professor of biology at the University of Strasbourg. Bounoure was a Christian but did not affirm that Genesis was to be taken to the letter.
The beginning of the quotation, "Evolution is a fairy tale for adults" is not from Bounoure but adapted from Jean Rostand, a member of the Academy of Sciences of the French Academy.
http://www.mwillett.org/atheism/sealedmind.htm
Page Not Found - HolySmoke!
By the way, I doubt anyone making this claim actually read anything by Bounoure in "The Advocate". People are getting this from Hovind.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
select * from USERS where CLUE > 0
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by iano, posted 07-30-2005 1:30 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:50 PM Asgara has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 312 (227852)
07-30-2005 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by randman
07-30-2005 3:21 PM


Re: What's so special about you?
randman writes:
One way is to look at the process.
This is just more smoke and mirrors about how the supposed "process" works.
You have not established yet that the phenomenon exists. Forget about "how" it works. Convince us that it does happen.
Show us the evidence. All you've done so far is spout creationist propaganda.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:21 PM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 67 of 312 (227853)
07-30-2005 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by sidelined
07-30-2005 1:33 PM


[qs] Most of modern medicine {bdepends[/b] on the validity of Evolutionary theory to account for its ability to cure ills and improve life for people.[/qs]
Bull crap. Take out ToE, and nothing would be any different. Genetics is not dependant on the belief of universal common descent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2005 1:33 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:48 PM randman has replied
 Message 150 by sidelined, posted 08-01-2005 10:21 AM randman has replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 68 of 312 (227854)
07-30-2005 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by CK
07-30-2005 3:22 PM


Re: What's so special about you?
Do you have anything to offer us besides onanism?
Hey, don't knock it until you've at least practised long enough to get really good at it!
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:22 PM CK has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 69 of 312 (227855)
07-30-2005 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by ringo
07-30-2005 3:27 PM


Re: evidence is important
So you were not taught in school that evolution was true, eh?
Get real. You most certainly were indoctrinated to believe in evolution. It is presented as fact, and presented in a believe-first, understand later format. It relies on deception in it's presentation such as:
the false use of depictions (standard propaganda), examples such as Heackel's drawings and drawings based on them, exagerrating perfectly human (just people) as excessively ape-like (Neanderthals) and doing so for well over 50 years after it was known to be false (it's just recently that this practice has began to fade with Neanderthals), etc,...
claiming evolution is observed when in reality speciation is observed, and speciation is not equivalent to universal common descent
claiming the fossil record shows evolution when in reality the fossil record shows the opposite in some respect in that species appear fully formed without any hint of the immdediate prior species, and they often exhibit great stasis once they appear, and when they disappear, we don't see them morphing or ever see the morphin process, but just see new species significantly different.
claiming human embryos have fish gills or fish pouches
etc, etc,...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by ringo, posted 07-30-2005 3:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:50 PM randman has not replied
 Message 73 by ringo, posted 07-30-2005 3:51 PM randman has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 70 of 312 (227856)
07-30-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by randman
07-30-2005 3:37 PM


Papers
Have you got the papers yet?
quote:
certainly did, and quite a few others have as well. There is a botany professor at NC State and quite a few other scientists who have looked at the evidence, and found evolutionism to be wanting.
Support or retract

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:37 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:53 PM CK has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 71 of 312 (227857)
07-30-2005 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Asgara
07-30-2005 3:32 PM


Re: At least one bogus quote
Here is the rest of the quote.
He is clearly "finalist" and against all contingent visions of evolution. ["Finalism" is a philosophical term related to a belief in ultimate purpose or design behind everything, including, in this case, the evolution of the cosmos and of life. - ED.] He bases his views, among other things, on the existence of elements that are pre-adapted for their future functions.
Page Not Found - HolySmoke!
It appears his resume has been exagerrated, not his sentiments.
However, he looks like an IDer, not a YECer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Asgara, posted 07-30-2005 3:32 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:52 PM randman has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 72 of 312 (227859)
07-30-2005 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
07-30-2005 3:45 PM


Papers 2 : Support or retract
Have you got the papers yet?
quote:
certainly did, and quite a few others have as well. There is a botany professor at NC State and quite a few other scientists who have looked at the evidence, and found evolutionism to be wanting.
Support or retract

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:45 PM randman has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 312 (227860)
07-30-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
07-30-2005 3:45 PM


Re: evidence is important
So you were not taught in school that evolution was true, eh?
No. I was not. I was not taught evolution at all.
You most certainly were indoctrinated to believe in evolution.
That is the question, not the answer. What part of that do you not understand?
It is presented as fact, and presented in a believe-first, understand later format.
Your empty assertions are getting very tiresome. If you have nothing of substance to say, please stop wasting everybody's time.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:45 PM randman has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 74 of 312 (227862)
07-30-2005 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by randman
07-30-2005 3:50 PM


Re: At least one bogus quote
No the actual quote is a mix of things said by two different people
that's called LYING not "exagerrated" - I know you creationists find the concept different to grasp.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 3:50 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by randman, posted 07-30-2005 4:00 PM CK has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 75 of 312 (227863)
07-30-2005 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by CK
07-30-2005 3:48 PM


Re: Papers
Yawn. I said there was a botany professor that was a creationist, and you asked for his name, and I provided it.
For me personally, after seeing how they crucified the poor editor that decided to publish the ID paper last fall, I will never look to journals controlled by evolutionists to publish anything critical of their basic paradigm, and would advise against anyone out there from trying, unless they just want to make enemies that work to destroy their career.
Heck, you might as well have asked some Jews to join the SS back in the 30s in hopes they could make their case there.
This message has been edited by randman, 07-30-2005 03:54 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:48 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by CK, posted 07-30-2005 3:57 PM randman has replied
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 07-30-2005 4:01 PM randman has not replied

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