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Author | Topic: How can evolution explain body symmetry? | |||||||||||||||||||
Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
The harder problem is for evolutionists to keep on explaining symmetry rather than the amorphic alternative.
The title of the thread was "How can evolution explain body symmetry?". Simon Levin once told me to think about EVOLUTION as Jacob did, that it creates"" much like a tinkerer in a junk yard. The odd thing is that he suggested this to me because he was unable to fathom the determinations I was suggesting to him from Salthe's book "Evolving Hierarchic Structures" while I was trying to express how cross-level phenomenona might be dimensionally related. So... concluding that bodily, the externals suggest asymmetry rather than symmetry is trivially an easy position TO BE IN. Any old junk yard dog is not that bad at making a leroy no matter what the color is. Why are not we radially symmetric like a jelly fish? I know of no evidence that shows that the environment acts equally on the left and right sides. This seems to be at best your intuition. Why can not the relation of symmetry and asymetry you suggest be the result of the different pressures of atmosphere vs. the unevenness of the ground in the same formal symmetry of the jelly fish. It seems to me that simple removal of various levels of organization in the Gladyshev law (proteins in the eyes, cells that dont duplicate etc) not subject to renewal could* equate radial and bilateral symmetry. The reason that the equation is difficult for evolutionists seems to me to be due to Kant's insistance that left and right sides SHOW the existence of GOD, but until the monohierarichies are clearly delimted chemically, it seems premature to rule out the FURTHER approach to the unconditioned that ID might additionally suggest is combinational among all relations of symmetry and asymmetry (whether explained by chance or necessity) in a acutal case rather than this that is possible. (Jar if you are wating for confirmation from Random123 on which of the 4 registrations is active I will not continue this posting sequence at this time). ************************
quote:Georgi was kind enough to have sent this to me last week. This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 07-01-2005 01:20 AM
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
Niche constructors concluded to a neutral directum kinematics relative to relative frequency differences. Neutral evolution could also detail amorphic structuring (random lumps on a prior differentiation) but conceptually the notion is retainable by reading both MacArthur and Hutchinson on the niche (Population Biology and Evolution Edited by Richard C. Lewontin 1968 Syracuse University Press pp 159-177 The Theory of the Niche by R. MacArthur & 177-187 When are Species Necessary? by G.E. Hutchinson )
This would be hereditary transmission of mutable information a la Waddington op. cit. page 37. quote: Thus something illegal as to matter may not be in form. The amorphic form, say like a lump of mashed potatoes or a clump of clouds, one that has not intrinsic symmetry, is cognized in multidimensional space connecting taxanomic and niche space. Now without reducint this framework to essentials, one must remand MacArthur’s , People who insist that all such terms be operational will reject niche just as they must reject phenotype and genotype as involving an infinite number of measurements; but some statements about differences between niches are perfectly testable, which is all that mattersp160-1. Hutchinson wrote,
It is to be noted that if the transformation is achieved by means of exclusively montonic functions, the clusters will maintain their identities, not overlapping each other. At first sight it would seem, however, that in the new space N these boundaries would be very much closer together than in T. (T=taxanomic space, N=niche space (added by BSM) A very large class of points in T would, if clusters are formed and adaptive peaks exist, represent poorly adapted genomes, while in N provided the environmental extremes are avoided, all points points should represent habitable environments. It is, however,m always possible that a number of points in N represent environmental conditions that do not happen to be present in the biotope under consideration. We return to ans aspect of this later ... One/you has/have to conceive the intitial conditions such as to force the boundaries FARTHER than in T. The discipline of macrothermodyanmiocs has appeared to me to return just such a geometry lest my analysis is faulty. That is ever present indeed but unlikely. The unit might however exist symmetrically and still go unsynthesized to my comments on Carnap on EVC.
quote: quote: quote: These are from the same reference as in the post you last responded to. Further linkage availble on request.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
I have "filtered" it out, because I have reduced any so-said "indoctrintation" to the query of Fisher's as to if there is any "adaptive" oversight and in the same generation of scholars found IN THE EVOLUTION"" of my grandad a certain adapation INTO biological praxis that I regress is submitted if only subsconsiously by any evolutionist but need not be digested by any bevy of bio-mass specialitsts etc.
But the stucuture of evolutionary theory MIGHT be able to hand"le" symmetry and the perverse representations of it in the literatuer WITHOUt reference to this social adpative indoctrination. There was no national hijack anywhere in this thread else it is partisianisms.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
I would say, "would produce" remands knowledge of a natural purpose vs, any-old-"product" hence 'could' but I did not read the post through. Evolutionists dont TEACH the search for natural purposes in natural history but rather have focused us on leaving any such ecosystem (Eldridge) and documenting natural selection in nature. Artifical selection gets the product that would be produced if the natural purpose on some geography demands causation of educts currently not MANuFACTured.
It is certainly easier to depose symmetry for an intelligent desginer (do nothing, say nothing) than it is for measures of varation that per existence are variable(defend a line).
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