All Evolutionary scientists have been Evolutionary Indoctrinated

Those horses were dead when found: one cannot prove the negative Iano insists be proven.Still, by his assertions, all education is necessarily indoctrination. Yet people throw off indoctrination all the time, and this forum proves that education can fail.What indoctrination could have been greater than that preceding the Enlightenment, when questioning the received truth of ecclesiastical authorities could get you imprisoned, exiled, or burned? Nonetheless, the stubbornly questioning mind went there, again and again.But the non-starter at the heart of his assertion is the notion that only by mastering the practice of a science can one reach reasonable judgments about the products of that science, be they material or theoretical.It is true that we cannot become experts in every science. But we can take a look at the reasonableness and productivity of their hypotheses. The power of Newtonian physics was ultimately demonstrated in machines that reduced toil, not on the printed page. The popular proof of Einstein's work was not found on the blackboard, it was found over Hiroshima.It is the scientific method that confers an authority so great that Iano wants to call it indoctrination. We have become predisposed to listen closely when a broad consensus of scientists tells us something important, and with good reason: centuries of proven performance.That we are like our parents, but different, and that we have greater or lesser success as a result of our traits, is obvious: no doctorate required. The popular knowledge of animal husbandry did much to gain Darwin's theory entry into 19th century minds. It was not a cabal of scientists that conferred wide acceptance of the ToE in the 20th century but rather the eminent reasonableness of the theory in light of the geologic/fossil record, and the stunning successes of biological scientists who applied the theory: the Green Revolution, finely turned vaccinations, the forensic power of DNA analysis, the promise of new gene therapies for ancient scourges.I suppose the greatest compliment paid to the ToE is the desperate flailing of Intelligent Designers: only by aping science can they hope to create any doubts at all.

Hi, Iano. See why I insisted you start your own topic? This is a tough crowd. There is justifiable pride at the rigor of peer-reviewed science, compared to which this thread was a cake-walk.If you want a more focused debate, consider The Great Debate, listed just above this 'Is It Science?' forum in the Science Forums list. You can contact a moderator or admin to explore the possibility of a moderated debate with one interlocutor.My impression (truly no offense intended) is that you are an exceptionally intelligent person too often satisfied with cleverness: how often we use our gifts to make life easy rather than extending ourselves to the limit!'Tis easy to get used to being a big fish in a small pond, and get taken aback by the big fish in the big pond...But both intelligence and cleverness are valuable traits, and it would be a shame for EvC to lose what you have to offer.Just don't challenge me--I'm a newbie, too, not yet ready for prime time.

Exactly.

Iano writes:

quote:

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Thanks for the kind comments (which aren't all that accurate). Thanks for the less kind comments too(which aren't that accurate either). I see genuine difficulty with separating science from indoctrination by the mechanisms posed by folk here. The sheer unwillingness of many (but by no means all) folk here to accept(irrespective of the fact it wasn't 'proven') that it could be a factor be conciously reckoned with has only reinforced that view

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You're welcome to the comments, none of which I thought of as kind or unkind, merely my read based on the data in hand and addressed to your utility: provocative, boundary-pushing folks are useful to a thoughtful community.As to their accuracy: you might consider (as you wished others to consider your comments, without proof) that the true applicability of those comments lies somewhere between my take and yours.At any rate, I wish you well, and hope you continue to participate.