Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Bush promotes ID
Monk
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 16 of 195 (229201)
08-03-2005 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Yaro
08-03-2005 1:11 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
I agree that it should be discussed, as long as it is discussed in a scientific context. It should be explained that it is not science, because there is no eveidence to support it. They should explain the polatics involved etc. etc.
We agree. The teacher should explain that ID, creationism, etc. is not science but part of many religious belief systems. There's no need to call it "bunk" or characterize it using any number of derogatory adjectives, any more than teachers should call Islamism "bunk".
I believe it's sufficient to note that many people do not agree with all facets of evolution despite its scientific basis because of their religious beliefs. I believe this can be done without bringing politics into the mix.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Yaro, posted 08-03-2005 1:11 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 17 of 195 (229204)
08-03-2005 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by paisano
08-03-2005 12:49 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
ID is not scientific, and weakening K-12 science education is likely to have long-term deleterious effects on the economic competitveness and military technology and strength of the US. The latter especially needs to be pointed out to Republicans who regard themselves as "pro-military".
I'm about as pro-military as they come. I believe your statement is completely false. How exactly is it going to have long-term deleterious effects on economic competitveness and technology?

"Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"
--Ann Coulter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by paisano, posted 08-03-2005 12:49 PM paisano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Yaro, posted 08-03-2005 1:35 PM Tal has replied
 Message 188 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 12-30-2005 9:46 PM Tal has not replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 18 of 195 (229210)
08-03-2005 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Tal
08-03-2005 1:29 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Well, I wouldn't go so extream as paisano, but ID does promote superstitious thinking over scientific thinking. Basicaly, it will promote bad science, and that's never good for technology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 1:29 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 1:41 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 19 of 195 (229212)
08-03-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Yaro
08-03-2005 1:35 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
And that's where we differ. I believe evolution is bad science. It is the most widely excepted theory based on the least amount of evidence (none). Fish magically turning into birds is pretty superstitious IMO.

"Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"
--Ann Coulter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Yaro, posted 08-03-2005 1:35 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 08-03-2005 1:44 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 23 by CK, posted 08-03-2005 1:54 PM Tal has replied
 Message 24 by FliesOnly, posted 08-03-2005 2:09 PM Tal has replied
 Message 38 by deerbreh, posted 08-03-2005 3:29 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 189 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 12-30-2005 9:48 PM Tal has not replied

  
paisano
Member (Idle past 6422 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 20 of 195 (229215)
08-03-2005 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Monk
08-03-2005 12:55 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Then you believe ID should be censored?
Loaded question.
K-12 science education should above all teach scientific methodology and reasoning. Where a body of facts is taught (which is secondary, IMO , to teaching the scientific methodolgy and reasoning), they should be drawn from areas that have substantial evidence and acceptance in the professional scientific community.
ID does not qualify, thus is outside the scope of science education.
Ok, then what should the teacher say when kids ask about it?
That it isn't in the syllabus and they will not be tested on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Monk, posted 08-03-2005 12:55 PM Monk has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Monk, posted 08-03-2005 1:52 PM paisano has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 195 (229216)
08-03-2005 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tal
08-03-2005 1:41 PM


A strange comment.
quote:
It is the most widely excepted theory based on the least amount of evidence (none).
Hmm. I hear this a lot. You are welcome to join us in the science forums to try to explain your comment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 1:41 PM Tal has not replied

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 22 of 195 (229221)
08-03-2005 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by paisano
08-03-2005 1:44 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
That it isn't in the syllabus and they will not be tested on it.
We may be posting past each other. Read my message Message 16. We basically agree, but I don't believe one sentence will be sufficient.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by paisano, posted 08-03-2005 1:44 PM paisano has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 23 of 195 (229224)
08-03-2005 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tal
08-03-2005 1:41 PM


More unsupported science bashing
Please come across to the science threads and support that claim - otherwise make a statement such as "I am unable or unwilling to support this claim at this time".
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 03-Aug-2005 02:01 PM
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 03-Aug-2005 02:02 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 1:41 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 2:10 PM CK has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 24 of 195 (229234)
08-03-2005 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Tal
08-03-2005 1:41 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Tal writes:
Fish magically turning into birds is pretty superstitious IMO.
And this has what, exactly, to do with the ToE?
But that's a bit off topic I guess. The question is about ID Tal. How would you propose we teach it in schools? I think it would be a very quick lesson plan (Godditit) followed by a very short exam (Answer = Goddidit).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 1:41 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 2:13 PM FliesOnly has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 25 of 195 (229238)
08-03-2005 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by CK
08-03-2005 1:54 PM


Re: More unsupported science bashing
I have many times. If I read something new or have something worthwhile to add, I will.

"Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"
--Ann Coulter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by CK, posted 08-03-2005 1:54 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by CK, posted 08-03-2005 2:24 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 26 of 195 (229239)
08-03-2005 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by FliesOnly
08-03-2005 2:09 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
How would you propose we teach it in schools? I think it would be a very quick lesson plan (Godditit) followed by a very short exam (Answer = Goddidit).
That's better than (dirtdidit) followed by a very short exam (Answer = dirtdidit).
I'll give you a serious reply when I get home tonight.
This message has been edited by Tal, 08-03-2005 02:13 PM

"Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"
--Ann Coulter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by FliesOnly, posted 08-03-2005 2:09 PM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Chiroptera, posted 08-03-2005 2:18 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 32 by FliesOnly, posted 08-03-2005 2:48 PM Tal has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 195 (229244)
08-03-2005 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tal
08-03-2005 2:13 PM


Off topic -- sorry.
Oh, by the way, I just noticed your signature, Tal:
"Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"
--Ann Coulter
Nice touch -- mentioning oil and cocaine in the same breath. Kind of invites comparison of the current war in Iraq to gang wars waged to control the drug market, eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 2:13 PM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Yaro, posted 08-03-2005 2:27 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 28 of 195 (229246)
08-03-2005 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tal
08-03-2005 2:10 PM


Re: More unsupported science bashing
EDIT (this gets better and better)....
Why don't you tell our viewers at home to the nearest 10, how many posts you have made in the science forums? How many of those have been on topic?
The viewers at home may wish to play along with this game - click on Tal's name and see if you can find how many posts he has made in the science forums - See if you can get your answer to the nearest ten - A special treat for the viewer who can work out how many of those were off-topic
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 03-Aug-2005 02:30 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 2:10 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Tal, posted 08-03-2005 2:42 PM CK has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 29 of 195 (229249)
08-03-2005 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Chiroptera
08-03-2005 2:18 PM


Re: Off topic -- sorry.
Ann Coulter is a right wing blow-hard anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Chiroptera, posted 08-03-2005 2:18 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Monk, posted 08-03-2005 2:32 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Monk
Member (Idle past 3923 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 30 of 195 (229252)
08-03-2005 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Yaro
08-03-2005 2:27 PM


Re: Off topic -- sorry.
Ann Coulter is a right wing blow-hard anyway.
Extreme right wing, but entertaining nonetheless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Yaro, posted 08-03-2005 2:27 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024