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Author Topic:   Philosophy is inherent to the practice of Science (whether you know it or not)
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 6 of 11 (229509)
08-03-2005 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Silent H
07-31-2005 8:52 AM


High sounding generalities but...
Holmes writes (emphasis added):
quote:
Unfortunately because of the scientific method's routine practical use, many scientists are losing sight of the philosophical nature of science, indeed that it actually is the practice of a philosophical principle that has limits. They refer to science as some sort of mere technical field with rules of what to do, which I guess are self evident (?), and beyond epistemic or logical concerns. Nothing could be more distant from the truth.
This has led to a general ignorance of scientific method and what it can yield or cover. It is almost treated like a religion with set dogma which is beyond question and thought to get at real truths. It has also produced many scientists ready to conflate correlation with causation, and so opinion with knowledge.
"many scientists...they refer...a general ignorance...many scientists"
This sounds like a vague notion.
Examples, please?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Silent H, posted 07-31-2005 8:52 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Silent H, posted 08-04-2005 4:55 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 9 of 11 (229631)
08-04-2005 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Silent H
08-04-2005 4:55 AM


Re: High sounding generalities but...
Good morning, Holmes.
quote:
I am also unsure how to exhibit an increase in poor studies or citations of studies in a clinical way. It is true that when one does not understand that science is philosophy one is generally ignorant of the scientific method... which I showed with evidence... but whether that results in problems is less defined.
I would point to the multiple poor references at EvC to articles showing mere correlation, which are treated as causative. Evolutionary Psychology is a fantastic example of an entire field growing up around extremely poor methodology based on a lack of understanding of the limits of scientific method. You can find threads on that field here at EvC.
If you want something more specific, you'll have to be a bit less vague. My main point was to show the connection between philosophy and science. My rant was less important and focused on those at EvC who had made such claims, which apparently you disagree with?
I requested examples, not a clinical study. Your "point about the connection between philosphy and science" is irrefutable; your assertion about the extent of the problem was broad and unsupported.
I recognize the difficulty of quantifying a broad claim about one's sense of things and asked for illuminating examples, not citations of studies. There does't seem to be anything vague about that request.
Forum posts from undefined authors (e.g.,lay vs. pro) hardly serve to support the notion that "many scientists" suffer from the problem you describe. A more telling example would be published work in which the scientist(s) went wrong, and peer review failed to correct the problem.
On the other hand, if that characterization was merely a rant, as you say, intended to provoke discussion and a greater appreciation of science's philosophical underpinnings, that's fine with me. I am quite sure I will learn by following the discussion.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Silent H, posted 08-04-2005 4:55 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Silent H, posted 08-04-2005 11:32 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 11 of 11 (229767)
08-04-2005 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Silent H
08-04-2005 11:32 AM


Searching
Holmes writes:
quote:
I apologize if my replies seem short or like they might be trying to dodge your point.
Not at all: I realized in hindsight that my initial response to your OP was brief to the point of brusqueness. I did want you to know that some thought went into the question and that no discourtesy was intended.
Searching the forums here for 'evolutionary psychology' is next on my task list. I ran 'epistemic problems in scientific literature' on Google Scholar this morning, and I fear my afternoon is more than spoken for...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Silent H, posted 08-04-2005 11:32 AM Silent H has not replied

  
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