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Author Topic:   Is ID Scientific? (was "Abusive Assumptions")
Evopeach
Member (Idle past 4725 days)
Posts: 224
From: Stroud, OK USA
Joined: 08-03-2005


Message 286 of 292 (231613)
08-09-2005 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by DominionSeraph
08-09-2005 6:54 PM


Re: Talking Points
Hard to follow such a sentence but.... I am not just taking out one thing at a time until the entity is no longer life.

I am saying pick any life form at any point and remove the subsystem ,which will be there, called the carbon atoms... nothing else removed at any point just carbon atoms. You will see utter failure of the system, it will not be made functional by any atomistic substitution at that state or any precursor state defined by evolution as mutation and natural selection, nor will it be able to function at any prior simpler state in a proposed progression in which the carbon atoms are not required nor at the directly previos proposed state which by evolutionary processes results in a functioninf life form not requiring carbon atoms.

That is an an IC systwm and since it cannot be developed at any point along the way by evolution it must be the product of design, ID.

QED


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by DominionSeraph, posted 08-09-2005 6:54 PM DominionSeraph has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by jar, posted 08-09-2005 7:04 PM Evopeach has not yet responded
 Message 288 by DominionSeraph, posted 08-09-2005 7:15 PM Evopeach has not yet responded
 Message 290 by Trixie, posted 08-09-2005 7:39 PM Evopeach has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 287 of 292 (231614)
08-09-2005 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Evopeach
08-09-2005 7:03 PM


Re: Talking Points
Please post the pertinent sections of Darwin's books that address atomic structure.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Evopeach, posted 08-09-2005 7:03 PM Evopeach has not yet responded

DominionSeraph
Member (Idle past 2865 days)
Posts: 365
From: on High
Joined: 01-26-2005


Message 288 of 292 (231622)
08-09-2005 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Evopeach
08-09-2005 7:03 PM


Re: Talking Points
Evopeach writes:

I am saying pick any life form at any point and remove the subsystem ,which will be there, called the carbon atoms... nothing else removed at any point just carbon atoms. You will see utter failure of the system, it will not be made functional by any atomistic substitution at that state or any precursor state defined by evolution as mutation and natural selection, nor will it be able to function at any prior simpler state in a proposed progression in which the carbon atoms are not required nor at the directly previos proposed state which by evolutionary processes results in a functioninf life form not requiring carbon atoms.

I know, but that's remarkably inefficient.
You're trying to find the exact straw that breaks the camel's back. But since your goal is to simply break the camel's back, why bother being all precise? Just drop a frackin' semi full of hay bales onto the camel and get it over with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Evopeach, posted 08-09-2005 7:03 PM Evopeach has not yet responded

Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6532
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 289 of 292 (231624)
08-09-2005 7:20 PM


misunderstanding of falsification
It is a shame to have come all this way only to find out that Evopeach doesn't understand Darwin's falsification statement. If we had known this earlier I'm sure that someone could have set him straight.

Darwin's statement was, essentially, that his theory (of common descent through small modifications) would be falsified if it could be shown that there is any complex organ in any species which could not have arisen from earlier precursors through small modification. The presence of carbon in living species is not an organ in any sense of the word, and so Darwins statement does not apply to it.

At any rate, the importance of carbon as a building material in all life can be explained by the theory of evolution by postulatiing that carbon was an important material in the first ancestral organisms; then the importance of carbon in present life is simply explained as the chemical heritage of our common ancestor.

The use of carbon in life in no way provides a refutation of the theory of evolution.


Trixie
Member (Idle past 1817 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 290 of 292 (231631)
08-09-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Evopeach
08-09-2005 7:03 PM


Re: Talking Points
Evopeach, how much biology and chemistry have you studied?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Evopeach, posted 08-09-2005 7:03 PM Evopeach has not yet responded

gnojek
Inactive Member


Message 291 of 292 (231632)
08-09-2005 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by PurpleYouko
08-09-2005 2:52 PM


Re: Talking Points
In theory you could replace all the C12 with C13 and the system would carry right on.

Well, it would carry on slower... :)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by PurpleYouko, posted 08-09-2005 2:52 PM PurpleYouko has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12591
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 292 of 292 (231645)
08-09-2005 8:34 PM


I'm Appalled!
I'm sorry I wasn't able to return to this thread for so many hours. EvoPeach is apparently determined to be as unconstructive as possible and has used up the rest of this thread on dribble. I'm closing this down.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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