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Author | Topic: Dr. Robert T. Bakker's thoughts on ID and Atheism in schools. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Thanks but it wasn't that I had anything to say, just wanted to hear more from him about it and perhaps an exchange with the atheists on board. I doubt I'd agree with him about a whole lot in general but his coming on here to post an opinion against evolutionistic atheism was certainly an intriguing thing to do.
And dinosaurs are always interesting, if that should be touched on. To Arach, apparently one and the same, at least others here have assumed so. I saw his name up on the board earlier this morning too so he'll probably check in yet again. This message has been edited by Faith, 08-10-2005 11:11 AM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
In post #217 on the moderation thread Percy has confirmed that he is *the* Robert T. Bakker everybody is talking about, and says he seems just to post previously published material but doesn't stay around to discuss it.
However, he reappeared on the board twice yesterday after his post, and then again this morning, so I'm not so sure he wouldn't join in discussion. The third link that Percy posted on the moderation thread brings out more clearly Dr. Bakker's support of Bible-believing Christianity than his post here does, though apparently with room allowed for an ancient earth. So perhaps he himself is an IDer? This message has been edited by Faith, 08-10-2005 12:04 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What he seems to be more than anything, if we must stick these labels on people's beliefs, is a theistic evolutionist, like many on this forum. OK. I have trouble keeping all the categories straight. Still don't exactly know what ID is trying to say.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
On the other hand, there are certain type of beliefs that I have trouble feeling any respect for. One is when a person is so committed to any particular belief or set of beliefs that they simply will not or cannot learn anything new. In the worst possible case, this type of person is unable to even read anything without distorting it in their mind, and so not be able to even understand what the point is. Sure describes certain EvC evolutionists when faced with creationist arguments. And did you mean to say the following or did you leave out a "not?"
But this should lead to a blanket condemnation of all Christianity, or even all modes of spiritual belief.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
In the battle between Dawkins’ Atheism and Phillip Johnson’s Intelligent Design, we’re not allowed to use public money to promote either. Neither is science.
Bakker's position is quite clearly pro-evolution and anti-ID. So he's certainly against the YEC version of "Bible-believing Christianity". Theistic evolutionist is the term WK came up with to explain the fact that he appears to be a Bible believer of some sort. But I'm a YECist who isn't for promoting YECism in the public schools either, so it isn't all that cut-and-dried who believes what.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I agree, but if you are at all familiar with any of Bakkers work, you would be pretty sure he wasn't a YECist or an IDer. I'm not, only what was posted here and at the links Percy gave on the mod thread. So how about Theistic Evolutionist?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But the ID movement DOES claim to be doing science. Thus it is clear that Bakker does not agree with them on a fundamental point. OK, that's the crucial distinction. It's not just an old-earth theological interpretation of Genesis, it claims to be science.
Rather he is taking a Christian evolutionist view which would get him roundly condemned from much of the YEC camp as a "compromising Christian". Yes, that's pretty much what I meant when I said I'd probably disagree with him about many things.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Good points. As I said somewhere, having a "name" evo on the Bible-believing side of the argument would make a difference somehow, even though strictly speaking we should all pretend we're above such things. It was FUN to see a supposedly well known evo criticizing an atheist evo, childish though that may be.
And by the way, the argument from authority is perfectly valid, but there are more and less valid versions of it. I mean, you should appeal to a relevant authority.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It may be semantics but the "argument from authority" or "appeal to authority" is never valid, it is a logical fallacy. By this we mean "it is true because Dr. So and So says it is true." As I said, there is such a thing as a valid argument from authority
quote: This message has been edited by Faith, 08-10-2005 04:23 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
As I already said, I don't expect to agree with him about much. And perhaps you are right, I would only be disappointed in him anyway. Maybe he's just like the other evos around here who claim to believe in the Bible but don't really believe in much of it. Except he SOUNDS different.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
and of course, before you talk too much about his faith, note that he's not only pentecostal, but apparently a preacher too. I've noticed the mentions of that but I must have missed the source. Can you point me to it?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So you knew about his being a pentecostal preacher before he posted here? Are you the source of that information then or did somebody post a link about it somewhere? I'm curious to read more about him.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Criticism accepted.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Truly, I don't take "evo" or "creo" to be insults, just shorthand, and I even accept "fundy" as shorthand to describe my own beliefs. But IIRC (I'll have to check) I was also being sarcastic in the post you criticized or offensive in some other way, and I accept the criticism for that. Also, if it really is true that people find the shorthand words offensive, I'm happy to stop them also.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I got to know Canadian Steve on a political message board (I invited him and some others to come to EvC to post on political topics and he's the only one who was interested), and he's no fundy. He says he used to be a strong liberal, as many Jews are, but has shifted more to the conservative side in the last few years. Nevertheless he still has many liberal views. He started out pro-Palestinian and against Israel and the thread he started here on the conflicts within Islam is the fruit of much study he did that shifted his perspective on the Middle Eastern situation. Religion-wise he is Reform, which is far from fundy, and he is an evolutionist, not a creationist. I also have an Orthodox Jewish correspondent who is much more of a conservative AND a fundy than CS is, although he doesn't share my literalist view of Genesis.
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