Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-26-2019 4:11 PM
37 online now:
AZPaul3, GDR, jar, kjsimons, PaulK, PurpleYouko, RAZD, ringo, Stile, Tangle, Taq, Theodoric (12 members, 25 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: ooh-child
Post Volume:
Total: 854,832 Year: 9,868/19,786 Month: 2,290/2,119 Week: 326/724 Day: 51/114 Hour: 2/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Nos and Nos-like behavior
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3883
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 1 of 11 (21446)
11-02-2002 11:57 PM


As per e-mail communications between the various administrators:
Nos is rather a master of working the grey area between acceptable and unacceptable. He is often working the edge of having a suspension laid on him.

My opinion:
Coming to a judgement on Nos, is made even more complicated, when others respond to his dubious behavior. Especially when others also adopt his mannerisms.

I recommend that others DO NOT make follow up comments to Nos's inflamitory statements. Let them stand by themselves. That will help keep topics from decending into low level flame wars.

In general, all should feel free to bring any problems to the attention of one of the administrators. The e-mail addresses are available in the profile pages (I think). Also, they are all, conveniently, on page 1 of the membership list, at http://http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/memberlist.cgi

The big Admin guy's e-mail address is also available in one of the pull down menus. I try to post mine, as my "signature", at the end of my messages.

Adminnemooseus

------------------
{mnmoose@lakenet.com}


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nos482, posted 11-03-2002 7:25 AM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Brad McFall, posted 11-04-2002 10:51 AM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Mammuthus, posted 11-19-2002 6:41 AM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

    
nos482
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 11 (21451)
11-03-2002 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
11-02-2002 11:57 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Adminnemooseus:
As per e-mail communications between the various administrators:
Nos is rather a master of working the grey area between acceptable and unacceptable. He is often working the edge of having a suspension laid on him.

My opinion:
Coming to a judgement on Nos, is made even more complicated, when others respond to his dubious behavior. Especially when others also adopt his mannerisms.

I recommend that others DO NOT make follow up comments to Nos's inflamitory statements. Let them stand by themselves. That will help keep topics from decending into low level flame wars.

In general, all should feel free to bring any problems to the attention of one of the administrators. The e-mail addresses are available in the profile pages (I think). Also, they are all, conveniently, on page 1 of the membership list, at http://http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/memberlist.cgi

The big Admin guy's e-mail address is also available in one of the pull down menus. I try to post mine, as my "signature", at the end of my messages.

Adminnemooseus


I didn't realize that a few simple words were more offensive than swearing, cursing, and direct name calling (Like calling someone an ignoramus). It is hardly one-sided, I tried ignoring some, but they just kept on going and they weren't warned. What you are suggesting is what was once called shunning. What next the stocks?

[This message has been edited by nos482, 11-03-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-02-2002 11:57 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 3 of 11 (21527)
11-04-2002 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
11-02-2002 11:57 PM


ok, MAYBE nos did not realize that this cite has never had the image of DARWIN CAMPFIRE CHAT. Thank GOD. I did not even look to see the "cat" in the image logo the first time this* changed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-02-2002 11:57 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 11-19-2002 7:30 AM Brad McFall has responded

    
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 4648 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 4 of 11 (23201)
11-19-2002 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
11-02-2002 11:57 PM


Did I miss something? Nos appears to have left the forum. Was he banned or did he leave?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-02-2002 11:57 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by John, posted 11-19-2002 10:07 AM Mammuthus has responded

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4045 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 5 of 11 (23202)
11-19-2002 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Brad McFall
11-04-2002 10:51 AM


Or, for that matter, thank Darwin! It'd be pretty boring if it was just evo-chat, don't you think?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Brad McFall, posted 11-04-2002 10:51 AM Brad McFall has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Brad McFall, posted 11-19-2002 11:30 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (23221)
11-19-2002 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Mammuthus
11-19-2002 6:41 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
Did I miss something? Nos appears to have left the forum. Was he banned or did he leave?

Last I saw nos here was this post:

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=1&t=28&m=16#16

This was just shortly after the ban ended.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Mammuthus, posted 11-19-2002 6:41 AM Mammuthus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Mammuthus, posted 11-19-2002 11:06 AM John has responded

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 4648 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 7 of 11 (23235)
11-19-2002 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by John
11-19-2002 10:07 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
Did I miss something? Nos appears to have left the forum. Was he banned or did he leave?

Last I saw nos here was this post:

http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=1&t=28&m=16#16

This was just shortly after the ban ended.


******************

I wondered if he had been banned again and why....I know you did not get along with him but I had a lot of fun when he and I were going against Wordswordsman...though in the end it was just me since they both left

By the way, my compliments on your debates with Tokyojim...I have been sitting back with some skittles and watching the show

..and was that guy allen the same one who you argued with long ago in the Free for All?

cheers,
M


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by John, posted 11-19-2002 10:07 AM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by John, posted 11-19-2002 12:43 PM Mammuthus has responded

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3205 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 8 of 11 (23241)
11-19-2002 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Quetzal
11-19-2002 7:30 AM


Not if evolution theory sailed the blue according to the tune of $paying% for theory support such as this site *does* provide me (see below) but yes, you are correct Q.

The Chemsitry of Nuclear Action @ a distance.

On this hypothesis there is NO difference between chomosomes as purely mechanical gene-vehicles and organic re-arrangements but is answered why we see not many "beneficial" mutations however I am not prepared to say if the X-ray etc view of mutations is the same as the fundamental series interpretation of energy levels in the difference of doublet, triplets etc (different orders of ordinal infinity) in quantum mechanics for any quantum field theory underlying the phenomenon of action at a distance which may not strictly be such once the chemsity is determined. Regardless the Creationist complaint against mutations in biology will be vindicated and the the sybmolic nature of the gene is re-expressed scientifcally once again.

Looking at discontinuous variation as uniform repetition and symmetrical variance as nesting repeated uniformly (per symmetry group) then the statistical refinement is open to population thinking that includes asymetrical class 3 or 4 cellular automata between (differences due to same place/space as differential mutation rates) say the dispute of Bateson and Weldon. Fiher's thinking (as per evolution of dominance etc) about split in evolution is shown with Huxley (if a gene is divisible by an infinity (infinite division of Anaxagoras??) to be misconcieved (becasue the science post Bolanzano was of only infinite compounding (combinations (no triangle)) due to a variety of genetic prossibilites organized ordinals may impart the cellular automata can model being rather what split cladistics and phlogenetics IGNORING panbiogeography for the acutal gene not the theory (even if one has to give up both cardinal/ordinal & phenotype/genotype).

This is not a cirucluar idea as Mayr inveighed against De Vries perhaps wrongly because it relies on computations due to genes that have a statistical mechanics derived standard deviation and a biologically subjective morphometric tangent space difference which dependingj on the meaning of the symbol that seperated the signs "A": and"a" in Mendel's thinking generalized (with or without Fisher for instance) reforms back to the start of genetics its origin and progresses any trend point mutations (not re-arrangements) can gain say by equivalent sophistication (regulation etc) beyond the water/lipid but not necessarily cell membrane boundary. Vitalism is not what has to have place here.

There may not be evidence for this view of genes as local strucutres in cell automato but the possibilites of releasing cardinal/ordinal notions into old phentoype/geneotype distinctions is viable hypothetically as per physical action at a distance that would have to be segregated from Faraday's postiion for example by Pascal in dynamic Macrothermodynamcis etc again but the theory needs some narration before an actual rejection can be absolute and not potential of breaks in chromosomes. There is no indication that Wolfram's thought that Natural Selection does not in scientific time formulate a gradual total optimization but it is also NOT an a priori position that is defensible to assert against some form of orthoslection if for no other reason than the proposal of Jacob per integron of cardinal inaccessibliity. This is not essentialism but a hypothesis that is also not typological but relies as much as the difference of biometry and population gentics on emprical data as Mathematical Genetics does not. When there is no clear phenotpe or geneotype it is hard to find the paragon but in this case it is physics not chemistry as the notion of mutation-pressure as an unmoved mover may have made some one think that a bird IS a snake or the chicken or egg comes first:n the coordination o fan organized orthogeneisis just because of a religious "Pavlovian"(causal) psychology contenting the difference of QM for any field etc socially but not biologically. There is no evidence that discontinuity systematics does not provide the biodiversity informatic database to metadata the results without some prejudice of thinking in terms of geneotype and phenotype (and then one-gene--one enyzme) as the rxn Sequence is not the RXN series. It may be that Chinese biology has better to supply in this regard.

How selfish DNA provides the rule for Mendel's undetermined elements approach universality in biology by A x Aa(non-universality group theory) x a gives DISSIPATIVELY (Kaufman vs Gladyshev??) across generations (with increases in entropy or Newton's how motion is got or lost) during the AA and aa concentrating by nested and other mating systems (computationally controlable (Wright's paper on assortive, mass selection divided into and A/a =/= a/A(which is constant for Mendel and the HW equilibrium (work beyond mere stablizing seleciton).

Case of Fiegenbaum Number and Repetitive DNA
Guanosine on Microtubules
Any other "molecular "adapation (that involves self-reprodicing chemical bond DIFFERENCES)(free path length physics and the variations from the kinetic theory of of gases to any molecular biology WITHIN Mendel's expression that "dilutes" (dissipates) over the generations (thus "continuous diffuse effect" may only be grammer with no lexos semantics as Levin may have preferred for his "next" mutant and is needed for the general perspective of rxn-diffusion equations constrainnig evolutlutariy involutions of the gene not merely ON chormosomes but NETWORKED to same.

General use of Electrotonicsin finding commonality of these cases

EG; Repetitive DNA may serve on in the third law of Newton as to keeping the position affect of locit on Mendel's more generalizatble elements (wihout Huxley's discrimination of chromosomes) under this multiplication of the metric of mutation rate and radiation dose in the effect (?fundamental series and energy level diagrams??) that genes as localized strucures gain by stress and strain OUTSIDE the nucleus but nonetheless are linked back to this space/region(Huxley) by chemical bonds and molecular dynamics within a certain motional variance by the kinetic theory of gases etc)(that are responsible for polymerization generally(when not more spectroscopically a fundamental).

But if certain bases are needed then this notion of say Van der Walls reality in biochemisty force would need some work (modification to the notion of fundamental particle (could the 2 and 3s of Mendel have something to do with the 2 and 3 due to quarks etc?? per spatial evolution as modelable in cellualar automata??).

It is not clear if the conserved quantities in??? directly at the population level by some sort of inter/intra group approach of Wright or rather is a result of lack of ordniations in the experimental philosophy or is rather a result of so-called "simple program". The science of ecoystem engineering (not nanotechnology) based of water balance calculation under migration could help if "drift" is more than the minor possibility it truely is.

Can the Y chromosome by smaller size act as timer from position effect of nuclear action at a distance? What Olby (p138) considers as Mendel predicting a retrodicatble description of Meiosis homologous chrmosome seperation may be rather the UNION o fall possible universality irreducible in any given histogeny (metric).

\!\(B\ \[Element] \((A\/a)\)\)
Is not each "pure germ cell"(a cross can reproduce) but the differential end
of an integral relation (spectrum of A--a,B---b,C--c,D--d,...L--l) of
numerator and denominator symbolically manipulable by "computations" of
genetic nature?

A model of how the cell cuts and linkage groups form in one computation of
why Pie is the same in C=
2pieR and A=
PieR^2. I had asked Ernst Mayr why not simply use irrational numbers
when identifiying the unique nature of labeling organisms but he
thought this notion wqas typological.
The outstanding question doubly signified by
Mayr(Growth of Biological Thoughtp673)
"For those primarily interested in development, the big question was: How \
can the undifferentiated egg cell by simple division, give rise to the \
differenetiated cells of nerve tissue, glandular tissue, epidermis, and the \
hundreds of other kinds of tissues recognized by histologists and \
physiologists?"

and Dunn (A Short History of Genetics)p143 quotng Morgan
"If Mendelian characters are due to the presence or absence of a specific \
chromosome, as (Sutton's hypothesis assumes (ital)), how can we account for \
the fact that the tissues and organs of an animal differ from each other when \
all contain the same chromosome complex?"

in say Gene Expression by Benjamin Lewis Ch22
"Introduction: The Transcription Apparatus The invariance of genetic \
information in each somatic cell, of an organism implies...One subsidiary \
point needs emphasis. Although these these data generally are taken to \
imply,.."p641

- - - - - - - - - -= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

may simply be the whatever straigtness between the length and and width of
the rectangle (as per sectoring circle above) as divisible
phenomenologically at the metaphase plate. Thus expressing the geometric
priority of the chromosome rossetee and a role of the centrome in the
kinematics of the this geometry while the dynmic mitosis continues such
that meiosis and mitosis are non other than the possible dynamics on the
basis of the one kinematics any cell cut VS linakage
group (in terms of total fitness) produces.
Morgan's notion that because there are more characters than chromosomes which
inclined him to proclaim both that the several characters
"must Medelize together. But they do not."(Dunn p142-143) seems on this
view to simply be a prewriting
on [the principle of computational equivalence] (
Wolfram's prciple of equivalent sophistiacation without the ecological
aspect as I first tried to color it in as)in
Mendels'{ (as noted by Olby Origins of Mendelismp138)
"But it was not until he (Mendel) had described all his results and \
had formulated the law of independent assortment of characters that he wen on \
to discuss how a hybrid can form puer germ cells. He then suggested that \
there is a temporary association of conflicting elements in the F1 hybrids \
which is broken whent he germ cells are formed. He pictured this process as \
a mutual seperation of the elements responsible for different traits.In 1865 \
on could hardly have expected a more accurate prophecy of the mechanism of \
segregation - the seperation of homologous chromosomes in meiosis."}
as to the reduction or irreduction of (areduction)computational
universality per cell divisible linakage
group (which is really a question about B and not A).
Take A,B,C,
D...L as Cantor Real Number Classes then stictly a subset of A into B is not
the same as C into B but B into C is the same as D into C etc. Real
number Class Transforms represent any possible horizontal within KIND so-
called in evolutionary literature speciation.
The confusion about the boudnary between micro meso and macro evolution may
be due to the lack of math related to manipulating real numbers perhaps not
philosophically developed in the discipline of philosophical biology
because of the use of mathematical induction can not be confused with the
product of this to infinite induction while deducible. There is no
abduction here as has been proposed in the Earth Sciences.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 11-19-2002 7:30 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

    
John
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (23257)
11-19-2002 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Mammuthus
11-19-2002 11:06 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
I wondered if he had been banned again and why....

I think he just left... well, actually, I think she just left.

quote:
I know you did not get along with him but I had a lot of fun when he and I were going against Wordswordsman...

Nos could have been bright and quite clever, but chose not to be.

quote:
By the way, my compliments on your debates with Tokyojim...I have been sitting back with some skittles and watching the show

Oh? Thankie....

quote:
..and was that guy allen the same one who you argued with long ago in the Free for All?

Same guy, and just as interesting as ever ....

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Mammuthus, posted 11-19-2002 11:06 AM Mammuthus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Mammuthus, posted 11-20-2002 4:15 AM John has responded

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 4648 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 10 of 11 (23334)
11-20-2002 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by John
11-19-2002 12:43 PM


I think he just left... well, actually, I think she just left.

M: nos was a she?

J:
Nos could have been bright and quite clever, but chose not to be.

M: It is a pity...I thought he/she? should have expanded on the posts rather than the one sentence responses.

quote:
By the way, my compliments on your debates with Tokyojim...I have been sitting back with some skittles and watching the show

Oh? Thankie....

M: It is interesting to see that TJ is replaying the same arguments over and over again that he used with me....but I did find it amusing that he claimed to understand the atheist perspective and then demonstrate repeatedly that he does not.

quote:
..and was that guy allen the same one who you argued with long ago in the Free for All?

Same guy, and just as interesting as ever ....

M: He appears to have exited again in a huff

cheers,
M


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by John, posted 11-19-2002 12:43 PM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by John, posted 11-20-2002 9:05 AM Mammuthus has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (23355)
11-20-2002 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Mammuthus
11-20-2002 4:15 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Mammuthus:
M: nos was a she?

I don't know for sure, but I have my suspicions.

quote:
M: It is interesting to see that TJ is replaying the same arguments over and over again that he used with me....but I did find it amusing that he claimed to understand the atheist perspective and then demonstrate repeatedly that he does not.

Seems to be the pattern.

quote:
M: He appears to have exited again in a huff

Yeah. He does seem to have exited. Maybe the pyramid hologram generators got him?

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Mammuthus, posted 11-20-2002 4:15 AM Mammuthus has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019