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Author Topic:   Looking for Former Evolutionists who are now Creationists
sld
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 38 (23299)
11-19-2002 8:30 PM


OK, I posted this on Talk.origins, and got little response there so I thought I'd see if I got a better response here. I originally posed the question about whether there were any former creationists who converted and someone made a good point that I should also ask if there are any former evolutionists out there?
I don't know if I've ever met a former evolutionist though, but here are my questions for them if there are any out there (and I promise not to start a flame war, at least not within this topic):
1. How much evolution had you studied before you became a creationist?
2. What specific fact was it that convinced you that evolution was wrong and creationism was right?
3. Which came first, your conversion to Christianity or your conversion to Creationism?
4. How did your friends and relatives react?
Bear in mind, this is not a question for creationists in general, but only those who converted at a later time in their lives. I know that there are a lot of "born again" Christians out there who became "saved" as adults. So tell us about your conversion to Creationism/Fundamentalism, and everyone else, don't shoot them down, just listen for once. It should be interesting reading.
SLD

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-21-2002 7:38 PM sld has replied

  
David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 38 (23338)
11-20-2002 5:05 AM


Does such a person exist?

  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 38 (23346)
11-20-2002 6:59 AM


I did change to creationism some time after I was first converted, because of some stupid book someone lent me.
Fortunately, most of the other Christians I knew were well aware that YEC was a load of bollocks and soon aided my restoration to a more scientificially defendable position. Mind you, for a long time I believed that the origin of life was miraculous. I only changed my mind on that for philosophical, rather than scientific reasons - given that God seems to do everything else through natural causes, it is consistent to assume that He initiated life the same way.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Percy, posted 11-20-2002 8:28 AM Karl has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 4 of 38 (23350)
11-20-2002 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Karl
11-20-2002 6:59 AM


This might be an appropriate place to relate my two sojourns into pseudo-science.
The first occurred over twenty years ago when I discovered a copy of Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision in a bookstore and purchased it. Over the next few weeks I was thrilled as I read of one Biblical event after another that could be explained by astronomical events. I couldn't wait to discover his explanation for how the planets Mars and Venus left their orbits to make close approaches to earth. But as I read on I became mildly concerned because Velikovsky didn't seem inclined to provide any explanations. And when in the last quarter of the book he once again had Mars and then Venus (or perhaps it was in the opposite order) spontaneously leave their orbits to approach earth I abandoned the book. Worlds in Collision is a marvelous work of scholarship in finding coincidental relationships between sky and Bible, but it's fiction.
The second occurred about the same time, so I guess you could call this my "open to any and all ideas" period. Transcendental meditation. I'd heard of it before and thought it quackery, but a guy who worked for me was involved and brought someone in from the local center to make a presentation during lunch hour at work. The 30-minute slide show was full of graphs and charts showing the health benefits of transcendental meditation. As an athlete I was immediately hooked. Enhanced performance, increased endurance, and maybe the mumbo-jumbo part of it had some truth to it! I began attending transcendental meditation classes.
There were two required introductory classes. One simply taught you how to meditate. The other was a 25 tape lecture series presented by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He's the same guy the Beatles linked up with during their India period. One of the fundamental claims of transcendental meditation is that it affects all around it. They claim, for instance, that crime and violence are less in cities with large populations of meditators. Through the entire tape series the Marharishi kept hinting that he would eventually reveal how this could possibly be so. I stuck it out until just a few tapes from the end when the Maharishi said, "How do we know this is so? Because we feel inside that it is so." That did it for me, I never returned to the center. I still recommend meditation - I still do it on occasion all these years later. It's a great relaxer. Oh, and in case anyone's wondering about the floating, no, they don't float. It's all bull.
--Percy

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 Message 3 by Karl, posted 11-20-2002 6:59 AM Karl has not replied

  
derwood
Member (Idle past 1876 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 5 of 38 (23367)
11-20-2002 9:48 AM


Maybe I am being cynical, or maybe I am just commenting on my experiences...
However, EVERY creationist that I have either known or encountered or read of on the Internet - including some of the 'professional' variety - that claimed to have been evolutionists lied about it.
They call it 'witnessing', I believe.
ICR geologist Steve Austin is a good example.
He claims that he was an evolutionist until he studied at Mt. St.Helens in 1980, when he baecame convinced of the truth of YESism.
Yet, he had been writing creationist articles under the (acronym) pen name Stuart Nevins for at least 4 years prior to that.
A student I knew in college was a YEC. Claimed to have been an evolutionist until he did some research on fish hearts.
As I got to know him better, I discovered that the closest he had ever been to being an evolutionist was a short period of teen rebellion... while he was at a private fundamentalist bible school...
And so it goes.
but that is just what I know...

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 Message 6 by Percy, posted 11-20-2002 2:47 PM derwood has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 6 of 38 (23394)
11-20-2002 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by derwood
11-20-2002 9:48 AM


SLPx writes:
However, EVERY creationist that I have either known or encountered or read of on the Internet - including some of the 'professional' variety - that claimed to have been evolutionists lied about it.
When a Creationist says they used to be an evolutionist I think what they most often mean is that they used to believe evolution was the correct explanation. This should not be interpreted as implying they ever understood evolution, and you'll often hear them go on to state such non-sequiturs as, "I rejected evolution once I realized you could never get a cat from a dog," or the ever popular, "I knew evolution couldn't be true once I found out about the improbability of a cell coming together by chance."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by derwood, posted 11-20-2002 9:48 AM derwood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-20-2002 11:45 PM Percy has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 38 (23451)
11-20-2002 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
11-20-2002 2:47 PM


Maybe he should try looking in Turkey? Recently I read an interview of two Harun Yahya minionis by a local Islamic magazine. They said that evolution has been defeated 100% in Turkey, and not even the college professors can defend it any more, thanks to the Harun Yahya committee.

This message is a reply to:
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Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 38 (23563)
11-21-2002 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sld
11-19-2002 8:30 PM


I can't really claim to be an ex-evolutionist. When I was about 12, my evolutionist-by-default, biologist father became a YEC. As a young geek I chose creationism also but never believed the creationist rhetoric on:
(i) circular reasoning in the fossil record
(ii) lack of beneficial mutations
(iii) lack of radioisotopic trends
(iv) the universe was young
From about the age of 18 I somehow knew that relativity would potentially account for (iv) and that either chemical effects or cosmological effects were accelrating decay, accounting for (iii). I simply never found any reason for the creationist insistances on (i) and (ii). So there you have it.
My father became convinced of creation through his observations of life under the microscope. Shortly afterward he became convinced of the validity of the Old Testament through a 6-part seminar series on Biblical archeology (I attended this at age 12 with him). At the end of that same year he was woken in the night and had an Acts 2 experience completely independently of any person or organization. He had no real idea what had happened to him. The following Easter he came across an old prayer book he still had from Germany. On the front cover was a lithograph of the Day of Pentecost.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sld, posted 11-19-2002 8:30 PM sld has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by sld, posted 11-21-2002 11:27 PM Tranquility Base has replied

  
sld
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 38 (23616)
11-21-2002 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tranquility Base
11-21-2002 7:38 PM


Well, I'm getting some interesting responses, but not what I was actually hoping for. It does appear that once one studies evolution and understands it that few if any go back to creationism. Perhaps I should post this question on BaptistBoard.com and get some real responses.
I'd be curious though, Tranquility, what did your father find under the Microscope that convinced him that evolution wasn't true?
SLD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-21-2002 7:38 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-22-2002 12:17 AM sld has not replied
 Message 36 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-28-2002 10:07 AM sld has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 38 (23624)
11-22-2002 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by sld
11-21-2002 11:27 PM


^ At the cellular and molecular level it is very evident that life works mechanistically with each part having a purpose. There is no doubt about that.
You just seem to think it could have arrived naturalistically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by sld, posted 11-21-2002 11:27 PM sld has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by John, posted 11-22-2002 12:37 AM Tranquility Base has not replied
 Message 20 by John, posted 11-22-2002 12:37 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 38 (23630)
11-22-2002 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tranquility Base
11-22-2002 12:17 AM


Duplicate messages 11-19 deleted.
------------------
EvC Forum Administrator
[This message has been edited by Admin, 11-22-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-22-2002 12:17 AM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 38 (23631)
11-22-2002 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tranquility Base
11-22-2002 12:17 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
^ At the cellular and molecular level it is very evident that life works mechanistically with each part having a purpose. There is no doubt about that.
You just seem to think it could have arrived naturalistically.

You still didn't say WHAT your dad found.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-22-2002 12:17 AM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Tranquility Base, posted 11-22-2002 5:53 AM John has not replied
 Message 22 by Admin, posted 11-22-2002 8:21 AM John has replied
 Message 38 by Tranquility Base, posted 12-03-2002 5:41 PM John has not replied

  
Tranquility Base
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 38 (23659)
11-22-2002 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by John
11-22-2002 12:37 AM


^ I think it was the basic goings on in the cell. He used to talk a lot about mitochondria. I'll ask him. I strongly suspect it was the 'big picture' (no pun intended) that he saw that dawned on him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by John, posted 11-22-2002 12:37 AM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by nator, posted 11-22-2002 8:58 AM Tranquility Base has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 22 of 38 (23672)
11-22-2002 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by John
11-22-2002 12:37 AM


Hi John,
Did anything unusual happen when you posted this message?
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by John, posted 11-22-2002 12:37 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by John, posted 11-22-2002 8:55 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 25 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-22-2002 9:10 AM Admin has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 38 (23678)
11-22-2002 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Admin
11-22-2002 8:21 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Admin:
Hi John,
Did anything unusual happen when you posted this message?

Not that I can remember. I posted several messages last night. One of them took awhile to post-- not long, maybe a minute or so. But I don't remember which message it was, and it seemed to be a mild version of the server problems the forum has been having.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Admin, posted 11-22-2002 8:21 AM Admin has not replied

  
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