Other civilisations in the Galaxy - are they really that likely?

Good point. I never thought of that... Though the point remains in terms of how long we have to wait for abiogenesis to begin, assuming 1Gyr is a reasonable amount of time for bombardment to stop in a typical universe. So? It just leaves a little flexibility in the extrapolations

Hmmm, I'm often asked "don't you ever get stuck?" and I reply "apparently not!" Getting stuck while diving caves tends to be a little more concerning than getting stuck in dry caves... We (probably) need heavy elements for life, so we need to have seeded the galaxy with enough population II(III) star debris to have the building black for a) planets and b) life. In other words, life didn't start evolving elsewhere 10Gyr ago...To me, the big hurdle seems to be Prokaryote to Eukaryote. Once there, given a benign environment, I have no problem with evolution up to all our advanced lifeforms. But the "benign environment" is a question... We've had our fair share of scrapes, but we haven't had neighbourly stars going SN, and other such sterilising events.

Can I drag this back to life on Earth for a moment?I'm happy with abiogenesis. As Chirop pointed out, this pretty much happened as soon as it was possible (i.e. post heavy bombardment). And I'm happy for eukaryote to human (with a question over civilisation). But it's the 2Gyr from prokaryote to eukaryote that has always amazed me. 2Gyr is 1/7 of the age of the universe!

I'll believe it as soon as someone gives me evidence that a dog can produce a non-dog and a dog came from a rock 4.6 billion years ago.

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'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton

I believe that this is God's universe, He thought it up and made it. I believe that God is quite capable of creating a universe that brings forth life from non-life.

quote:

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They're working on it right now, but from what we have discovered so far it would seem that amino acids, proteins, strands of RNA, and other organic compounds have a relatively high probability of forming by themselves if conditions are in favor.

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I would think that conditions on this planet would favor it. Have scientist ever witnessed it happening even here? A strand of RNA forming?

I would love to have some astrophysicists weigh in on this but I would say we just do not have enough information to assign any probabilities. Having said that, I would tend to say that life isn't "likely" even when conditions are perfect for it. But the fact that an event isn't "likely" doesn't meen it won't occur. "One hundred year floods" aren't likely, yet they do occur, sometimes twice in the same year. So we are down to "We just don't know."

I believe that this is Conway Morris' (of Burgess shale fame) belief. He feels that God created the universe and the laws of physics so that it would be inevitable for intelligent life to come about.However, I agree with you; from our one example (us!), it can be argued that advanced life (much less intelligent life, much much less advanced civilizations) is rare.

Yes. You'd be amazed to how common it is for the formation of primitive organic compounds to occur.

You have any links that describe it?
I was under the impression that life could not just form like that.
Like what came first, the chicken or the egg?Life is either very abundant in the universe, or we are the only ones, how do you feel about that?I also can't wait to find out if we find evidence of life on mars. But even if we find life elsewhere in the universe, is that a reason to not believe in God?

No. Just search for it yourself. I'm just telling you from my experience as a biolab researcher. You misread what I said. I said organic compounds come into formation very often by themselves. However, we have not yet observe an instance where these building blocks of life actually form something more than precells. So, if you consider precells as life, then yes I would say that life does come about from non-life relatively often. However, if you don't consider precells as life, then no I would not say that life as we know it is probable. Just search the forum for chicken and egg. If memory serves me well, there should be at least 3 threads on the subject. Sounds like that logical fallacy where you present the if and or choices, limiting the other person's options when you outright know that both of those choices are very likely to be wrong.The other thing is you need to define the word "abundant" in relation to the galaxy. How many star systems in our galaxy of 200 billion stars that need to have life in order for us to use the word abundant? Probably not.

I am a younger member of the forum, and while I rarely post anything, I do end up reading most of the topics posted here just for my own learning. I was wondering if anyone could give me just a brief explanation of what the 'Fermi paradox' is, as I have heard of it but never heard what it is. If the explanation is to long for here, perhaps some links to other websites would do? Thanks.

Very simply, he asked "Where they be?"

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Wow, that was quick. Thank you.

Soulslay,Here's a link to some more information about Fermi's Paradox.By the way, the Wikipedia is a great source of information on all kinds of topics. Have fun. {edited subtitle to attract Soulslay's attention}This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 17-Aug-2005 06:32 PM

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins