How do you decide what is True in the Bible? Part 2

It is dangerous to take a verse out of the Bible without having the entire context, and that may be particularly true with Proverbs. Having said that, I still find this an interesting verse.On its own I feel it is saying that truth isn't made glaringly apparent to us but that if we are diligent it can be found. My opinion is that this would hold true if we are trying to find and learn about God through His creation, our intellect, through the any holy text, or through all.This verse is an indication to me that if the Bible is taken exactly literally it contradicts what the verse suggests. A literal reading would indicate, theoretically, that all answers can immediately be answered. Likewise truth is not easily evident if we are trying to find and understand God solely through our own understanding of the natural world.It seems to me that in order to decide, (as nearly as we can), what is truth, we need to take all of the information that God has provided in context. Incidentally, I would include the findings of science as part of the information that we should include.

---

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

I guess I am realy struggling with what the heck his last post has to do with the thread. Anyone care to explain?

EltonianI brought up this issue with Tal in another thread. I think it is really obscene to use a quote as a signature when the purpose is to try to make it seem as if a famous scientist is backing your viewpoint. I am not familiar with that quote, but I am not saying it is not accurate. It may be out of context. Albert EInstein said many things including the following

quote:

---

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls.

---

So I dont think Einstein is a good supporter for you

i'm not totally sure about that, actually. proverbs seems to be, well, proverbs. most of them don't span more than one verse, although some might be small collections of sayings.but i totally agree with what you're saying."seek and you will find." but you have to seek first. truth is not always plainly evident -- i'm all for reading the bible as literally as possible. within reason, of course. we don't read the parables literally, do we? nor should we read ezekiel's extended metaphors literally. context is terribly important.we have to use our brains when we read the bible. not just listen to the dogma and the people who tell us what it says.

---

אָרַח

I guess before some one else points it out, I have to agree that I'm reading the Bible literally to make the point that we shouldn't read it literally. I guess though that is the question we are trying to answer. We have to use our God given wisdom to sort out how to read the Bible in all of its facets, and many times it is to be taken literally. The trouble is we aren't always, (or even often it seems sometimes), going to agree on how to read different sections of the Bible, which takes us back to Proverbs 25:2.

---

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

quite. the trick is figuring out what's literal and what's not. i think a good portion of it is meant to be read literally -- but things like the parables of christ are not. the prodigal son never actually happened, per se, it was an example jesus made up.so the question is, really, what indicates that we should read thiz ezekiel chapter literally, when it appears quite obviously to be sarcasm?

---

אָרַח

To my mind the important thing is how our reading of the Bible impacts us as individuals. We might both read the same passage and both come away with a something that is personally pertinent but entirely different.The important thing isn't whether the Bible is literal or not in my view. What is important is whether or not we allow God to change our hearts, and the Bible is one of the tools that He uses to do just that. JMHOThis message has been edited by GDR, 08-17-2005 05:58 PM

---

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

yeah, but if we're reading it in some way that's so completely off-base as to defeat the very purposes and intentions of the verse, what good is that tool, really?

---

אָרַח

I don't see that as a problem if we are truly seeking truth. Everything should be filtered through the concepts of God's love for us, our love for him and our loving our neighbour.If however we read it with the notion of supporting some off base idea then it doesn't really matter, as we can always find some way to justify our thoughts and actions if we want to.

---

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

The issue is this: Are the purposes and intentions of the verse derived from human wisdom or from supernatural impartation/instruction?Too often, humans try and define their religion through philosophical musings and common sense. My point is that we are incapable of grasping perfection and never will be capable of it.This does not mean that we should be blind sheep. I believe that listening with the heart is equally as important as discerning with the mind. Both can lead one astray....but of course this assumes that you believe that humanity is originally flawed.My belief is that God interacts with humanity and His Spirit is the final arbitrator.You may see it a bit differently....perhaps that He gave us a brain to use and figure it out that way.I maintain that we are incapable of independant reasoning on theological truths...(of course how then would we know what writings were inspired and which were not?) Again....by His Spirit.

that's kind of contrary to the text of the verse in sub-topic line, though. so, god gives tells what we have to know with the bible -- and then because it's confusing, he tells us how to read it an what it really means too.why not skip the middle-man and just work with direct impartation from god?

---

אָרַח

well, that's exactly the point.for instance, the church of jesus christ-christian justifies their particular belief system with the bible.religious people can seem to make the bible say anything they want. we're making god in our image, not the other way around. i think trying to understand what it's really saying -- and not some biased dogmatic interpretation and bending of the facts -- is of grave importance.

---

אָרַח

Amen!! We do however have to realize that well meaning people of good will are not always going to agree.

of course not.but i think we should have some kind of set of rules for acceptable interpretation. for instance, the jews have a rule that no reading may contract the p'shat -- the simple literal reading of the text. in other words, you can't bend the text away from what it actually says.

---

אָרַח

So, EJ, qualifications aside, you believe Scripture writers are using the pesher technique?