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Author Topic:   War in Iraq, is there a point?
FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 308 (236177)
08-23-2005 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by nator
08-23-2005 4:04 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
I apologize for insulting your intelligence. I find the positions put forth in the posts I've read by you to be somewhat perplexing. Perhaps it's my shortcoming in that I don't understand leftist dogma.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by nator, posted 08-23-2005 4:04 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 4:26 PM FairWitness has replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 242 of 308 (236179)
08-23-2005 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by nator
08-23-2005 4:18 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
Well, if that comes to pass, it will be a democratic decision voted on by the entire population of Iraq, not something imposed on them by a brutal dictator. If the citizens of Iraq vote to impose Sharia law on themselves & they ratify a Constitution that implements it, then so be it, the Iraqi people have spoken & there is nothing we have to say about it. It is their decision. That is called democracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by nator, posted 08-23-2005 4:18 PM nator has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 243 of 308 (236181)
08-23-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 4:14 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
quote:
Either way, while we're fighting & our soldiers are dying, it would be the patriotic thing to do while in public at the very least keep the negativity to a minumum so as to avoid encouraging the terrorists.
It might be the patriotic thing to do, but it is certainly not the right thing to do. If the war is wrong, then any American soldier that is killed or maimed is a life that has been wasted for no reason. Any Iraqi civillian that is killed or maimed is a life that has been wasted for nor reason. A prolonging of the war is a tragedy that has no purpose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:14 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:34 PM Chiroptera has replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 244 of 308 (236182)
08-23-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Tal
08-23-2005 3:58 PM


Re: Popular Support
Note there is no poll in the Boston Globe. It just says there was a poll conducted by the military.
Yes, this is what I'm really curuous about actually. I wan't to see this poll. The globe is the only publication I have seen with this data. I also found it mentioned in the LA Times, but again they don't say where the poll is.
Not to discard it all together, would it be fair to say that such a poll would not be made public by the administration?
But I agree, if we only have one source, we cann't cite it as definative. But it is troubling to me that poll numbers IN GENERAL are so hard to find. I guess it's sort of hard to hand out questioneres in a war zone
We are talking about the number of Iraqis supporting the insurgency right? Not just the number that want us out?
Well, the question is, who would they rather have. Us, or the insurgents? It's an honest question, what's your opinion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 3:58 PM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 4:35 PM Yaro has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 308 (236183)
08-23-2005 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 4:21 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
quote:
Perhaps it's my shortcoming in that I don't understand leftist dogma.
Maybe your rightist dogma is clouding your thinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:21 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:28 PM Chiroptera has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 246 of 308 (236184)
08-23-2005 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 4:14 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
I'm not sure how but I think that you have totally misinterpreted my post, or else you meant to reply to someone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:14 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:32 PM GDR has not replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 308 (236185)
08-23-2005 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Chiroptera
08-23-2005 4:26 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
Whatever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 4:26 PM Chiroptera has not replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 248 of 308 (236188)
08-23-2005 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by GDR
08-23-2005 4:28 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
You are correct. I was responding to jar's post. The same one you were posting about. Sorry about the confusion, I'm new here (not to mention, a blonde).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 4:28 PM GDR has not replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 308 (236189)
08-23-2005 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Chiroptera
08-23-2005 4:25 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
That's not your call. YOu are not in a position to do anything about that & our soldiers are fighting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 4:25 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 5:00 PM FairWitness has not replied
 Message 255 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 5:10 PM FairWitness has replied

CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6472 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 250 of 308 (236190)
08-23-2005 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Yaro
08-23-2005 4:25 PM


Re: Popular Support
When iraqis voted in huge numbers, despite threats of mass murder against them made by the insurgents, the world saw that they recognized the US as their ally, and the islamists/hussein loyalists as their enemy.
The majority of iraqis are Shia Muslims. They have been ruled, brutally and against their will, since that nation's birth almost 100 years ago by the Sunni minority, of which Hussein is one. Naturally, then, the US is rightfully understood to ahve freed them from this tyranny. It is very instrcutive to note that Ayatollah al Sistani, perhaps the most revered man in the nation and a Shiite, has steadfastly supported the US and the democratic revolution the US is engendering.
It is also noteworthy that the other minority group, the Kurds to the north, were saved from genocide by the US after Gulf War 1, and, while under the protection of the US and GB in the years up to Gulf War 11 (actually the first continued), developed something of a representative government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Yaro, posted 08-23-2005 4:25 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 4:45 PM CanadianSteve has replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 251 of 308 (236191)
08-23-2005 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by jar
08-23-2005 4:17 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
jar writes:
Did the US invade Afganistan?
Did the US invade Iraq?
The other things you mention such as working with Pakistan I'll address as we move through. But the issue of invasion and occupation (and we still have troops in Afganistan) is important because of the percentage of the available resources committed.
The invasions took place but it is not an occupation in the historic sense. There may still be American, (and Canadian) troops in Afghanistan but they are only there to track down and control the terrorists. When there is no longer the threat of terrorism from that country there will no longer be troops. The western forces support the local gov't.
The goal in Iraq is again to establish a democratically elected local gov't and get out.
As I said before, There is no one more aware that this is not a conventional war than the Americans and they are adjusting to the new reality.
You may well be right about resources being spread somewhat thinly but at this point that is what is required. The unfortunate thing is that the majority of the rest of the western world is content to let the US, the Brits and the Aussies make the bulk of the sacrifices.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 08-23-2005 4:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 5:23 PM GDR has replied
 Message 300 by jar, posted 08-23-2005 6:27 PM GDR has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 252 of 308 (236192)
08-23-2005 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by CanadianSteve
08-23-2005 4:35 PM


Re: Popular Support
This is off the top of my head but.. isn't it actually the case that onereligious group voted in large numbers while the other one didn't?
Anyone?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 4:35 PM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 5:23 PM CK has not replied

Monk
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 253 of 308 (236193)
08-23-2005 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by nator
08-23-2005 4:18 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
...because Hussein suppressed radical Islam.
I've seen you post this a few times. Why do you think he singled out radical Islam? I thought Hussein was an equal opportunity suppressor. In building a secular government, didn't he suppress Muslims of all flavors?
It was my understanding that he crushed all Islamic opposition to his reign, regardless of the ideology of the opposition, radical or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by nator, posted 08-23-2005 4:18 PM nator has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 254 of 308 (236195)
08-23-2005 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 4:34 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
As a citizen of a country that claims to be a democracy, it is not only my right but my duty to voice my opinions, and to do what I can to prevent and correct wrongs done by the government, even if it claims to do its wrongs in my name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:34 PM FairWitness has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 5:21 PM Chiroptera has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 255 of 308 (236199)
08-23-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 4:34 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
heh - I love messages like this - I phoned my friend Dan (serving Sgt. who's on leave from operations in Iraq).
His quote for you "Fuck iraq, it's a shithole and they are welcome to it".
Is it not his call either?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 4:34 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 5:21 PM CK has replied

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