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Author Topic:   War in Iraq, is there a point?
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2893 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 271 of 308 (236222)
08-23-2005 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 5:44 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
we are the victims of terrorism.
It wasn't Iraqis on those planes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 5:44 PM FairWitness has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 6:11 PM deerbreh has replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 308 (236226)
08-23-2005 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by deerbreh
08-23-2005 5:44 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
You cannot say you support & love our troops & then make public statements that put them in additional danger, which is what you're doing. You are giving aid & comfort to the enemy every you publicly voice your dissent. For the love of God, please stop it. You are encouraging the enemy to fight harder, to fight longer, to build more bombs, convincing the resolve of the American people is weakening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 5:44 PM deerbreh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 5:58 PM FairWitness has not replied
 Message 281 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 6:04 PM FairWitness has replied

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2893 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 273 of 308 (236227)
08-23-2005 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by CanadianSteve
08-23-2005 5:25 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
There was simply no way Bush could have brought them onside.
That's your opinion. He didn't try very hard so we will never know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 5:25 PM CanadianSteve has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 6:09 PM deerbreh has replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5048 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 274 of 308 (236228)
08-23-2005 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 5:44 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Again: at what point would you consider it to be okay for anyone to oppose our activities in Iraq? if we were committing genocide, would you be saying: the decision is already made, the election is over, we have a Commander In Chief & his is the responsibility & power to conduct the war. Ours is the responsibility of patriotic citizen, which means supporting this nation.
When, in your opinion, do we have the responsibility to say "this government is conducting the war in a way that I don't agree with?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 5:44 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 6:04 PM docpotato has replied
 Message 294 by CanadianSteve, posted 08-23-2005 6:17 PM docpotato has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 275 of 308 (236229)
08-23-2005 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Chiroptera
08-23-2005 5:32 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Chiroptera writes:
A wrong does not cease to be a wrong just because a "decision has been made", nor does one's responsibility to stop it end.
For the sake of argument let's assume that it was morally wrong to invade Iraq. Time only flows in one direction and the fact that the invasion happened can't be changed. I'm just saying that in my view it would be morally wrong to now pull out of Iraq and leaving them ungoverned and defenceless.
In addition I believe it would have a long term negative impact on stability in the Middle East as well as strengthening the terrorists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 5:32 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 5:55 PM GDR has replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 276 of 308 (236230)
08-23-2005 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by GDR
08-23-2005 5:52 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
quote:
I'm just saying that in my view it would be morally wrong to now pull out of Iraq and leaving them ungoverned and defenceless.
In my view, it is up to the Iraqis themselves to determine whether the continued presence of US forces is morally right or wrong, and under what conditions it would be morally right to remain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 5:52 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 6:00 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 277 of 308 (236231)
08-23-2005 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by CK
08-23-2005 5:33 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Just the opposite from what I've seen, including British soldiers I worked with. Many volunteered.

Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 5:33 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 6:04 PM Tal has replied

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2893 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 278 of 308 (236232)
08-23-2005 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 5:48 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Again these are the tired old Vietnam arguments. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to question the patriotism of those who disagree with you. You do not know the enemy well enough to know what gives them "aid and comfort." It is just as likely that the insurgents want the U.S. to STAY, as it helps their recruiting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 5:48 PM FairWitness has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 279 of 308 (236233)
08-23-2005 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Chiroptera
08-23-2005 5:55 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Chiroptera writes:
In my view, it is up to the Iraqis themselves to determine whether the continued presence of US forces is morally right or wrong, and under what conditions it would be morally right to remain.
Good point and I agree. I'm not just sure who you listen to though. The Kurds definitely want them there, the Sunnis don't and the Shias are a mixed bag.
The elected officials whose lives are constantly in danger most definitely want them there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 5:55 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 280 of 308 (236234)
08-23-2005 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by deerbreh
08-23-2005 4:05 PM


Re: Left v. Right B*ll Sh*t
What part of "target" don't you understand? Some are getting killed but many more are coming home as amputees or maimed in some other way. Either way, they are no longer available for duty.
And? What point are you trying to articulate?
As to your analysis - excuse me but I have heard it all before - during Vietnam. I have no more confidence in the U.S. military's or the civilian leadership's analysis of what is really going on in Iraq than I did in Vietnam.
Then you argue in ignorance. Good luck.

Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 4:05 PM deerbreh has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 281 of 308 (236235)
08-23-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by FairWitness
08-23-2005 5:48 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
I tend to agree with Thomas Jefferson - it's a bad thing for people to stay silent, it's not a trait to encourage.
quote:
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to ... remain silent.
Mr.Lincoln also had something important to say:
quote:
I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts.
Why don't you trust the american people?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 5:48 PM FairWitness has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by FairWitness, posted 08-23-2005 6:07 PM CK has not replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 308 (236236)
08-23-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by docpotato
08-23-2005 5:52 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Well, obviously, if our government were conducting war as the Nazi's or Stalin did during WWII, or Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, or the genocide occuring in the Darfur Province of Sudan today, then I'd say we'd all be screaming at the top of our lungs. But that is not what's happening. Millions of us in America support this war & although things are very difficult at the present time in Iraq, we must stand firm & stay the course. Too many people are counting on us. We cannot walk away from this & running off at the mouth out of pure political hatred of GWB, or the desire to regain political power, is no reason to risk the lives of our troops or the Iraqi people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by docpotato, posted 08-23-2005 5:52 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by deerbreh, posted 08-23-2005 6:10 PM FairWitness has not replied
 Message 298 by docpotato, posted 08-23-2005 6:27 PM FairWitness has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 283 of 308 (236237)
08-23-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Tal
08-23-2005 5:55 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
Volunteered in what sense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 5:55 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Tal, posted 08-23-2005 6:13 PM CK has replied

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2893 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 284 of 308 (236238)
08-23-2005 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by GDR
08-23-2005 5:35 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
This would bethe French who along with the Russians, and others who were making billions along with Saddam Hussein from under the table oil dealings under the cover of the UN food for oil program.
Beside the point. Nobody's hands were clean, including American companies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 5:35 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by GDR, posted 08-23-2005 6:14 PM deerbreh has replied

FairWitness
Inactive Member


Message 285 of 308 (236240)
08-23-2005 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by CK
08-23-2005 6:04 PM


Re: Opposing Terrorism
I do trust the American people, a majority of us elected President George W. Bush as our Commander In Chief & Republican majorities to both houses of Congress. Why don't you trust that decision made by millions of your fellow American citizens?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by CK, posted 08-23-2005 6:04 PM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Chiroptera, posted 08-23-2005 6:09 PM FairWitness has not replied

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