Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

Yeah, and I just started talking about my signature out of the royal blue.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

And I did what I thought was the courteous thing and voiced my objections to you rather than asking an administrator to decide whether it violated the rules. How do you suggest in the future I call you on something without responding to one of your posts? Or do you think I have no right to object to something which I find offensive? Why don't you just do the right thing and remove the offending line?

I've already addressed all of your questions and I will not comment further about it in this thread.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Er, Tal........wher my post begins a paragraph with "on another matter" it means that I'm no longer talking about the previous matter. My comments were nothing to do with your views on homosexuality, but very much to do with your "mediawhore" postings and all related ones.I don't think that the casting the first stone comment by Jesus was to teach people not to thropw stones, it was not to judge. If you choose to take it literally, can you explain how the chap Jesus was talking to managed to get a log in his eye? You must remember - the mote and the log? Disagree with what this woman says by all means, but is it really Christian to bad-mouth her the way you have? It just comes over as boorish in the extreme.

I sympathize with your point and if the polls are any indication, so do an increasing portion of the US populous. It’s a tough call and everyone who initially supported the war has their limit beyond which, based on history and current events, they decide that staying the course is no longer the best path. I’m not there yet. The time may come when I change my mind, but for now I am reminded how difficult the task is.We were in Japan and Germany for 7 years after WWII and those were favorable circumstances, i.e. little or no insurgency. We have, per capita, about the same number of troops in Iraq, (140,000) as we did in Japan, (200,000 after two years). So at this point in time, I’m inclined to side with the Administration. For now.I will also agree that stay the course and similar mantra is tiring. Bush should do a better job of laying out the specifics. He should quit selling the war, he needs to sell the progress. Aside from Bush, part of the problem may be that we only see sporadic reports in Iraq and those are nearly always negative. The positive progress is muted and often not reported. I don’t necessarily blame the media for this although they are certainly complicit. It’s simply a matter of bad news outselling good news as everyone knows.I vaguely remember, (as I show my age), reports of activity during the Vietnam War on the tele. It seemed that every night we would see a graphic of North and South Vietnam with the DMZ line separating the two. The graphics might have little star bursts to show particularly active combat areas. It was a running permanent segment on the nightly news. The body count, various operations, enemy tactics, progress or lack thereof, etc. This lack of progress, night after night, year after year on the TV was probably just as effective in turning America against the war as were all the protest marches.My point is that more information on a regular basis of exactly what is happening in Iraq aside from just the reports of death and destruction would be helpful in arguing for a continued US presence until the Iraqi’s can handle it themselves. Vietnam is not Iraq. Unlike Vietnam, there is real progress in Iraq that simply doesn’t get adequate media coverage. I believe here is the Rumsfeld quote you refer to:

quote:

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"The constitution to be successful, has to take into account the legitimate interests, and fashion a balance in the federalism aspect of it, and in the other key things that they're worried about, so that they'll all nod and say, 'Well, I really don't like it. It's not perfect. But it's good enough. And, by golly, if we have to amend it, lots of other countries have amended their constitutions. If there's something we made a mistake on, we'll just have to fix it later,"

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***sigh*** Rumsfeld, meh, I’m about --— this close, (pinching salt between fingers) to calling for his resignation. Abu Ghraib, post war planning, and comments like these. Don’t get me wrong, I believe he is correct, but jeez, he has no political savvy.Drafting a constitution is hard work, takes time, and requires considerable compromise on all parties involved. America took 13 years with an ongoing process of amendments. It would be a great victory for the democratic process if Iraq could finalize a constitution. But it is not necessary for governance.A final written constitution would be great, but lots of other countries get along without one, (Britain for example). The British Constitution is unwritten, unlike the constitution in America. It is uncodified in the sense that there is no single document that can be classed as Britain's constitution. The British Constitution can be found in a variety of documents. Supporters of this type of constitution believe that it allows for flexibility and change to occur without too many problems. This may be the best form for Iraq. We Americans shouldn’t make the mistake of dictating the specific form of democracy. IMO, its should be sufficient that it is democratic.I think it is important to get the governing fundamentals agreed to with the acknowledgement that further refinements, (amendments or other documents), can and will occur over time. I don’t mean to imply that your points regarding women’s rights and a secular government are not important, it's just a matter of priorities. Iraqi energies should be directed toward organizing a government, building a security force, assisting reconstruction, and fighting the insurgency.

Great post.One major problem is that so many of the issues simply have not been brought into the public discussion. A big one is the Kurdish issue. It will affect Iraq, Turkey, Kurdistan and Iran at a minimum and folk need to understand what's involved, the history and the threat.It's things like this that should be at the forefront of the discussion but that are simply being ignored.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I can judge people based on their actions. I can't pass judgement on them. 2 different things. Uhhuh, and this isn't too extreme: You know, after thinking about it, I have to retract my media whore statment. I am sorry.She is not a media whore, she is a media pimp.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

Tal I really respect and am grateful for what you have done in Iraq, but I think that you might like to reflect on how you come across on this forum. I apologise in advance for sounding patronizing, but I don't know how else I can express my opinions without sounding that way. I would suggest that you may judge people's actions but we are not supposed to judge people. It is our job to love, not to condemn. For one thing we never know what people have gone through to make them the way they are. Sure I agree that the quote you used is extreme. What has that got to do with what your post? Somebody else's actions don't justify yours. WWJD. I don't think he'd be posting stuff like that on an internet forum and not only that, it doesn't add to the discussion.Your signature is crude and mocking and we both know it isn't Christ like. Just because the admin on this forum will tolerate it doesn't mean that it's justified.JMHO

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This thread...I can't wait for Jesus to come back.lolThis message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 08-24-2005 10:18 PM

Interesting perspective... well written as jar pointed out... but I differ on a couple of issues. Maybe only slightly, but I want to throw them out there. Obviously there can get to be a point where it is untenable to continue trying (we have actually lost), or we become embroiled in something else with greater urgency for our nation and must shift resources. Short of that, I think it is our duty to stay until things get straightened out.Whether we agreed with the war or not, pulling out is not going to make the war not have happened, and actually result in a humanitarian catastrophe. If you care, then we should stay as long as is tenable given our vast resources.This has nothing to do with the war on terror (which a "free Iraq" won't change anyway) but humanitarian assistance. I guess what I'm appealing to is that for anyone that thought we should have done something in Rhwanda, how would this not be different? Without our presence the nation could pull itself apart, or at the very least have insurgent "warlords" vying for power in even bloodier attacks. I agree he should stop trying to sell the war. However trying to sell the progress is also not going to work. What he really needs to do is set out some actual timetables and incentives to achieve future progression. It has been his failure to meet any of his predictions which is why the people have lost interest, not that he hasn't mentioned enough the few things that have happened despite all the other failures.Stay the course is vague and allows him to dodge accusations as he can twist it to mean anything. I guess I am saying he needs to set out a damn course already and show us how destinations will be reached and that we are actually moving toward those destinations (in concrete ways). Agreed in part. There could be more coverage of things that are moving forward. However, unlike vietnam there is almost 0 coverage of the failures of the administration such that they pay any price for their errors. The media allows the administration to skate on many factually errant statements and dodges.People eventually figured out that the Vietnam war was unnecessary and those that had gotten us into it had made a big mistake. We still do not see that realization setting into those that support this administration, and the media is not holding administration officials' feet to the fire.But then again, I think that is because of a change in the media where "objective" journalism is now considered allowing two people to just bicker at each other and throw out whatever points they want to make, with no real factchecking and calling people on their BS. And that is without the problem of inherently propagandist media like FOX. Agreed, but would you be comfortable with a constitutional monarchy of sorts? That is what many nations in Europe have, including Britain and the nation I am living in. That could easily result in another Hussein type character, and indeed hussein might not have fought such a venture (maybe we should have proposed that instead of asking that he leave the country). Thus a figurehead of strength is established, yet the everyday function remains in the hands of the populace.What if it were a constitutional theocracy... the same as a monarchy but with the restriction being religious leaders?In the end, is it not true, that even with a democratic Iraq, we are just as likely to see terrorist threats forming and emerging from that nation?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

And you are welcome to it.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

WELL SAID. THIS IS THE KEY POINT!!! sorry about yelling. The only caveat I would add is that there is a connection between Iraq and terrorism.A democratic and free Iraq will further the move towards stability in the ME and stability in the ME will make life more difficult for terrorists.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Would you say that England, Canada, Spain, the US, France, Pakistan and India are free and democratic?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well my memory of Vietnam is less vague than yours so I guess I show my age also. And one of the things I distinctly remember is all of the "progress" that was being made right up to the 68 Tet offensive. After that we didn't hear about the "progress" anymore. I am not clairvoyent, I don't know whether there will be a "Tet" in Iraq. But I do know that what comes out of Rumsfield is chillingly similar to what came out of McNamara and that what comes out of Bush is chillingly similar to what came out of LBJ. No they are not the same place/situation. But they are similar enough to scare me.

All I'm saying is that a stable Iraq and a more stable ME will make things more difficult for them but they won't go away either.It will make it more difficult to establish bases like they had in Afghanistan as they need sympathetic governments to do that.It should ease tensions making it harder to recruit. There will still be those who can be sold a twisted view of Islam that supports terrorism.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.