Video of Iraqi Insurgent being interogatted

I'll bite. Yes.

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Why do terrorists need a "sympathetic government"?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If that is the case, and yet terrorists are created in each of those nations, then what is the connection between democracy and avoiding terrorists?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It took a sympathetic gov't in Afghanistan to set up open training camps. Without a sympathetic gov't they are forced to train while remaining in hiding which is a much more difficult proposition.

Is that really the case?If we look at the histories of terroist attcks, the idea of a training area such as were found in Afganistan, Iraq or before that in Lybia, are the exception instead of the rule. Most of the planning, training and coordination seem to occur in the developed countries. The developed nations have the infrastructure, communications, transportation, industry, research facilities, educational facilities and financial institutions that terrorists need.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Do those countries support the terrorists organizations (money, support, aid) or do they attempt to crack down on those terrorists?The answer is no. There is a difference between a terrorist living in your country and that country supporting that terrorist.

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See message 96. Those nations' governments are not sponsoring, supporting, funding, or otherwise aiding those individuals.This message has been edited by Tal, 08-25-2005 01:40 PM

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

I'm not sure of my facts here but it seems to me that most, if not all, of the terrorist attacks outside of Israel have been accomplished by people who have gone to the camps in Afghanistan.It seems to me that the US and others have been relatively effective in cutting off the communications, the financing and the source of recruits to Bin Laden and his organization.It seems that what is being done now is being done by small indigenous cell groups. As deadly as they might be there has been no repeat of 9/11.I have no doubt that if Bin Laden could find a nice safe country to operate out of he would be overjoyed.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Sorry but your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the question.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Again, what does that have to do with anything?For example, the 9-11 pilots learned to fly the planes in Arizona and Florida. They rented planes and preflew the routes from US airports. The planning took place all over the world.There have been training camps in many countries, but such bases are not needed or even essential. The IRA, Basque, Sendenaro Luminoso, Red Guard, Tamil Tigers and other terrorist organizations have flourised for years in developed countries.If we are to understand and bring terrorism within reasonable limits, we need to uderstand what causes it, and how it operates.Terrorism does not need bases or the support of some government. Such bases may make things slightly easier, but the realy planning and training require the facilities found only in the developed world.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm out the door jar but I just have time to say that the indictrination was done in Afghanistan. As I keep repeating it just makes life more difficult for the bad guys if they don't have a secure base.Sorry for not having more time to make a more deserving reply.

You replied to my earlier post, but I'll reply to it and your latest one (as they are somewhat connected) here.There was no connection between Iraq and "terrorism" anymore or less than any other nation, before our invasion. There is now a lot more ability for terrorist organizations to operate in and from Iraq.A stable gov't in Iraq will help Iraqis. That is all. There is no such thing as it helping stabilize the ME at all. They can just as much end up in territorial disputes or ideological disputes, using terrorism or militarism, as any other democratic nation has. There is no historical record to support the claim that democracies limit terrorism nor militarism... or lend stability. The training camps in Afghanistan were supported and indeed much training came from the US. This occured during the Soviet occupation, where we fanned the flames of the radicals we are now fighting for the same reasons we had them fighting the soviets.It is incorrect to say that most or all terrorists have trained in Afghanistan. McVey certainly did not train there, and that is a rather important counterexample for americans to think about. Neither did abortion clinic bombers, nor militant leftists within the US. It is doubtful IRA members were training there. The list goes on and on...There is no such thing as "the terrorists", who all work together. There are many different groups with different agendas that end up using acts of terror. They train anywhere and everywhere. The US gov't itself has a terrorism school/camp within the US, mainly for terrorists we wish to have act within Central and South America. It is a scandal. That took years to put into operation, and succeeded beyond their hopes. We cannot assume the lack of another major success like that means anything.How many years before the first WTC bombing and the oklahoma city bombing? How about the oklahoma city bombing and 9/11?I think we should stay in Iraq and try to help them achieve a stable gov't. Personally I prefer democratic gov'ts so that is my bent. But I do not share any pipedream that that will end any of our problems with terrorism, nor help solidify the ME.I think solving the Israeli-Palestinian situation would largely help calm the ME. There finally seems to be some hope for that conflict. If that is solved and Iraqis get a stable gov't, then at least the worst may be over for a while.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Yes it does. You are just ignoring it because it disproves your point.If not, state why it doesn't.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

We are in complete agreement that there is a responsibility to see the job through in Iraq for the sake of the Iraqis.I don't know for sure that a democratic Iraq will help bring stability to the ME but I sure see it as a possibility. Democracy is attractive and (remember the "domino theory") I could see it being contagious.Bill Clinton was a fantastic negotiator and he was successful in getting the leaders in the area several times but in the end talking accomplished nothing. Since the start of the Iraqi war Syria has become easier to deal with, the Palestinians are becoming somewhat less aggressive, Israel has pulled out of Gaza and the US is pulling out of Saudi.As far as terrorism is concerned one of the main objectives is to marginalize them. If there are fewer places where they can exist comfortably we will be better off.I imagine that we agree though with the idea that terrorism will be with us for a long time yet.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This is just not true.and that dude in the video WISHES he was in bin Laden's group! No more than ours. Yeah, that's nothing like ours. Where are you getting this? CNN? They are a mixed bag if anything, and most of their crap lately "supports" the war.NYT? Judith Miller anyone? What do families of US military homicide bombers get? I'm sorry that you've been brainwashed into thinking that the Iraq war is about "freedom." I'm sorry that US homicide bombers and shooters don't differentiate either. Should I point you to pictures of our own rape rooms and mass graves.
Yep, they had to dig mass graves in at least Fallujah to bury allthe people they killed there. Are you quite sure about that?