Atheism isn't a belief?

That's the dictionaries example.I know my parents love me without them telling me and vice versa for kids loving their parents.Of course in reality info is usually gained from interpreting the actions of the other person in lieu of words.I think that is why in the Book of James it emphasizes showing ones faith by actions.IMO, of course, that means that God should provide some sort of action to show his love for his people.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Yes, but being convinced that something is true isn't the same as observing it. Two different definitions of 'know'.

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Exactly

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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This, given that it is not reasonable to think that objective evidence, in it's empirical, scientific sense, will be available (God would be supernatural). I have said that in requiring such evidence, one is looking for the evidence in the wrong place. "No evidence" is thus rewritten "I am not looking for the evidence where it may be found" Thus the rationale behind athiesm is shown not to be rational

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You have not shown that the rationale behind atheism (hopefully you will learn how to spell it correctly at some point) is not rational.It is not up to the atheist to find your invisible God or the supernatural realm that you claim exists. It is up to you to provide the information; and since you haven't, you have shown me that you also don't know where God or the supernatural can be found outside of your mind or literature.Just because I don't believe what you say about the existence of a god and the supernatural, doesn't mean I have an unfounded trust in something else. It just means that you have not made your case for their existence by providing facts or information for me to believe or trust to be real.

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purpledawn writes:

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In my Christian's mind he believes he is saved, he is a Christian, he is seeking a closer union with God, but the journey took him away from belief.

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In his mind. Is that not believism? What about knowing? Where does that come in? If one knew then one cannot unknow. Google 'know the living God' for scriptural backup that this is not ony possible but frequent.

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Where else does belief take place except in the mind? In the sense that know means to be aware of; have perceived or learned, yes, my Christian knew he was a Christian etc.You have yet to provide the scripture that supports your statement that one cannot "unknow" as you put it. It is your responsibility to provide the support, not mine to find it.

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In commenting on the purpose of the law being to make people realise that they can't keep the law, I am referring to a theme which is all over the bible. I would find it strange, and somewhat wasteful of time to have to provide chapter and verse given that it is as obvious as the day is long that this is the case:

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Providing book, chapter, and verse, is not a waste of time but a common courtesy. It shows me that you are actually looking at the book and not quoting from memory or tradition, which I think some of yours are since you tend to mix your lessons.I find it amusing that the verses you provided do not show that the Jewish laws were given to make man realize that they are unable to keep the laws. IMO, my explanation made more sense than yours.The Jewish laws had the same purpose as any other laws developed by communities or nations. The same purpose as our laws today.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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"No objective evidence for God" is not a rational statement as to the non-existance of God. It makes the statement that 'objective' an absolute as a way of knowing things when there is no absolute foundation for the view.

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Which has nothing to do with whether atheism is a religion or not.

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"No belief" is not an athiest position. An athiest holds to something other than God - ie: 'everything is natural'. But he has no way of knowing this. He can only hold that view by belief.

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You refuse to follow through with the Christian I presented that went from belief to nonbelief. He did not pick up another belief, he found that the information presented concerning the Christian God was not true. Therefore he no longer had confidence in the statements or promises of Christianity or their God, which means he no longer believed.The word belief has many meanings: Yes an atheism does not have beliefs, convictions. An atheist does have beliefs, convictions.Atheism is not a faith, religious or otherwise.Atheism cannot trust, but an atheist can trust or have confidence in many things.Atheism cannot believe in the tenets of a group, but an atheist can believe that the principles of a group are true.Atheism cannot have an opinion, but an atheist can.So the statement that Atheism is not a belief, deals with meaning #2. You have not shown that Ahteism is a religion. It is not. IMO, you are trying to say that since the atheist believes that the natural world is all that exists that atheism is a religion, but technically that person is a naturalist or the belief is naturalism (the belief that the natural world is all that exists).Naturalism is a belief in nature. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. Therefore, atheism is not a belief. It does not share the attributes of religion.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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But he needs to show that the borders within he CHOSES to investigate are the only borders there are. And he can't.

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No he doesn't. You are the one who claims that there are other borders. You have to make those borders known.

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Thus athiesm via belief that the borders he has are the only borders there are.

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Again that is not atheism. An atheist does not believe that gods exist period. He does not believe that the information, or lack there of, provided is true.The atheist can only investigate what you present. If you present nothing, then there is nothing to investigate.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Thus atheism is a belief. Which contradicts the title of this thread.

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In case you missed it check out Message 248.I have clearly shown that atheism is not a belief.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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remember a 'yes' answer brings in belief and if any other answer which says the same thing

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Lack of belief in God does not mean a lack of belief in other things as I explained in Message 248. Atheism only deals with God.Just as theism only deals with God, not beliefs in anything else.You have been shown that Atheism is not a belief or religion, please address it.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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there are no athesists who don't believe (by faith) in something else. If they don't believe something else then they are a-anythings - not atheists

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Again you are ignoring reality.You have been told that atheism only deals with god, not anything else. As I showed you in Message 248. If I believe that nature is all that exists, then I am a naturalist. That is a belief but it has nothing to do with atheism. Again, atheism is a lack of belief.Theism is a belief in god, not anything else. It doesn't mean you practice a religion or that you believe in fairies, or trolls, etc.

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doctrine of Atheism is: 'No God ...because of something else'.

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There is no doctrine of atheism. You may run into people who give you their reason for not believing, but that doesn't constitute a doctrine. Etymology of Atheism
It is nothing more than a tag to identify those without gods.

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I don't want to go on and on about it PD

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I'm sure you don't because I have shown you to be wrong and you have yet to show otherwise.

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if your're prepared to concede that every atheist follows a religion but that which they follow isn't itself a religion - then I'm prepared to meet you half way and let it go at that.

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Why in the world would I want to concede to a sentence that makes no sense, especially since I've already proven you wrong?No matter how much you manipulate word meanings to try and make your point, you have not succeeded.You have not shown that atheism is a belief. You have said it is, but you haven't shown that it is.Babble on!

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Has nothing that Purple Dawn, DominionSeraph, myself and others have said, sunk in at all?

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Alas, our purpleness had no effect on him.I think he's using the repition sales technique. Keep saying the same thing over and over until they give in.Although I would appreciate it if an Admin would at least let us know if we did make our point in this debate, since I'm sure iano will not concede. I've never gotten to this point in a debate where a very solid point has been made and I felt it was supported.Oh well I'm off to feed the purple dragon in my garage.
Take care.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Told maybe, showed definitely not.

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Since I am accumulating an excess of temperatue beneath my circular, tight-fitting clothing component and you are definitely projecting short, loud noices erroneously toward the top of an arboreal plant; I state again that you have not clearly shown that my statements and support in Message 248 are wrong, and have shown no support for your statements.Obviously continuing this discussion with you is like sending dense shelly concretions throught the air to fall in front of stout-bodied, artiodactyl creatures; so I will slay a brace of avian creatures with just a single petrous conglomeration by saying again that you do not debate honorably and my argument stands as is.Atheism is not a belief and no one has shown otherwise.Good Day

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Actually when you think about it, theism is not a belief (as in a religion) either. It is only a descriptive word for one who believes in god(s). Just as atheism describes one who has no theistic beliefs.When you look at the etymology of atheism it has been around a lot longer than the use of the word "theism". My guess is that atheism was used as a derrogatory term in ancient days.Just an interesting thought I had. Have a great day!

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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The Bible tells us (Romans 1 19-23) that everyone is aware of God but choses to deny the awareness.

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Paul made this statement in a letter. He made no claim that God or Jesus gave him this information. What makes him an expert on whether everyone is aware of god or not? What makes him right?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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athiesm describes someone who has no theistic beliefs but has athiestic beliefs.

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What are atheistic beliefs?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Unfortunately, iano keeps twisting the meanings of words to suit his purpose. He confuses belief as a religion with believing that something is true.As a person who has no god and worships no god, then I am classified as an atheist. No more, no less. Anything else that I believe to be true in life does not fall under this heading.I found this web site on Religion of Atheism which I think presents our case very well, and also addresses iano's irrational "reasoning".

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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...but ALL gods have been defined by man. Any god is an argument from ignorance.

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God is a personification of the universe. As the universe of man expands, so does a god's domain.

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The problem you run into when you argue that a god would be free of natural limitations is that there would be no consistency in the realm of the natural.

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Since the gods reside in mankind's imagination, they are only limited by man's imagination.

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What will you take as evidence? When will you consider something to have been proven to be impossible?

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Since we are dealing with imagination, no matter what we imagine is appropriate evidence, man's imagination will change the rules. All we can do is take the evidence presented to us individually and decide whether we consider it to be true or not.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France