Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-26-2019 6:48 PM
28 online now:
AnswersInGenitals, Coragyps, DrJones*, edge, jar, Percy (Admin), PsychMJC, Taq (8 members, 20 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: ooh-child
Post Volume:
Total: 854,836 Year: 9,872/19,786 Month: 2,294/2,119 Week: 330/724 Day: 55/114 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev12
3
456
...
20NextFF
Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consecution
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6318
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 31 of 300 (237899)
08-28-2005 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by randman
08-28-2005 3:04 AM


Re: Enough folk.
and why is this not an attack on Charles? Set parameters or allow all attacks
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by randman, posted 08-28-2005 3:04 AM randman has not yet responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 665 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 32 of 300 (237904)
08-28-2005 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Theodoric
08-28-2005 2:50 AM


Re: Admins: Set the parameters
To be fair, I don't really need anyone rushing to my defense.

My ban occured while I was at the movies, then out to dinner, then asleep. It had been 12 hours before I even checked my email.

As I said then, and now, I fully accept any decision the admins make.

This isn't a democracy, I don't pay anything to post here, I don't maintain the server or the site. We don't even have to put up with banner ads! (Thanks by the way).

They get to make the rules and enforce them as they see fit. I have no problem with that at all.

There really can't be a completely "fair" system since all the decisions are going to be subjective evaluations of the intent of a post made by someone the admin has never really met.

This site is great, and I love being able to hash out these ideas / answer questions / correct falsehoods.

From time to time, we're all bound to get frustrated with whomever we are having an argument with and overreact. We shouldn't, but it's bound to happen. It's good to have someone there to watch the borders.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2005 2:50 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2005 3:58 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 665 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 33 of 300 (237905)
08-28-2005 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by randman
08-28-2005 3:04 AM


Re: Enough folk.
Gotta side with Rand on this one, sorry to say.

Charles, take it down a notch buddy. It's all good.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by randman, posted 08-28-2005 3:04 AM randman has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by CK, posted 08-28-2005 5:42 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6318
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 34 of 300 (237910)
08-28-2005 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Nuggin
08-28-2005 3:44 AM


Re: Admins: Set the parameters
BS. It has to be fair or the whole site is BS.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Nuggin, posted 08-28-2005 3:44 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 35 of 300 (237924)
08-28-2005 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Nuggin
08-28-2005 3:46 AM


Re: Enough folk.
But the point is - I'm actually DEFENDING Faith with that post - I'm not suggesting faith is "special education", I'm suggesting that is how the moderators are treating her by expecting lower/different standards of behaviour. So the question has to be "why?"

The only reasonable explanation is that they don't feel she is capable of adjusting her behaviour and interaction with other posters - maybe she is not - but that's NOT a decision for the moderators to take - it's demeaning to her and this site.

Yes sometimes I am too blunt but I perfer that to pleasant half-truths.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Nuggin, posted 08-28-2005 3:46 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 300 (237972)
08-28-2005 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
08-28-2005 2:34 AM


Re: Enough folk.
Explain what is wrong with this post. Am I out of line saying what is true. Why does Faith get a free ride? Faith can attack and criticize with no retribution, but I explain in clear coherent terms why this is unjust and I am proclaimed the bad guy???? What is up with that?

I have no idea what you are talking about. You were not proclaimed the bad guy.

If you'll go back and read my message I said "the last 21 messages".

This is degenerating into a playground "He said - She said - Billy did it first" discussion.


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
Message 1
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

Other useful links:

Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2005 2:34 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by CK, posted 08-28-2005 12:08 PM AdminJar has responded

CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 37 of 300 (237974)
08-28-2005 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by AdminJar
08-28-2005 12:00 PM


This is a dodge.
That reply is a dodge.

Many members of this group feel Faith get special or different treatment from the rest of us:

1) Is there a policy to give Faith special or different treatment to the rest of us?

2) If the answer to 1 is yes - then the next logical question is why?

If the answer is no, then we need to understand why that perception has arisen (but that's not an issue we need to tackle on this thread because it's not directly related to moderation).

Look I know that moderation can be a pain in the ass and a drain on time (I do it on a number of boards) but if you step up, then..em.. you step up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by AdminJar, posted 08-28-2005 12:00 PM AdminJar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by AdminJar, posted 08-28-2005 12:36 PM CK has responded

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 300 (237981)
08-28-2005 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by CK
08-28-2005 12:08 PM


Re: This is a dodge.
First, there is no one standard of moderation. Each moderator is unique and independant. There are often disagreements between mods on what tactics to take.

1) Is there a policy to give Faith special or different treatment to the rest of us?

Fundamentalists, Young Earth Creationists and Evangelicals, not just Faith but in general, are given greater leeway than Atheists, Evolutionists (including Theists Evolutionists) or Agnostics. The later are held to higher standards.

2) If the answer to 1 is yes - then the next logical question is why?

I can only voice here what I have said to the other moderators. It is only my position, and does not imply that any of the other mods agree with it.

I believe that people such as I described in the former group constitute a large percentage of the general population. We need to be constantly reminded of their presence, their beliefs, their capabilities and limitations. They should be allowed pretty much free rein so that those characteristics may be demonstrated to all.


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
Message 1
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

Other useful links:

Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by CK, posted 08-28-2005 12:08 PM CK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by CK, posted 08-28-2005 12:40 PM AdminJar has not yet responded
 Message 40 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2005 3:14 PM AdminJar has not yet responded

CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 39 of 300 (237985)
08-28-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by AdminJar
08-28-2005 12:36 PM


Re: This is a dodge.
Well if that's your attitude then I just want to say that...

oh you answered my questions fully.

Thanks for clearing that up.

This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 28-Aug-2005 12:40 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AdminJar, posted 08-28-2005 12:36 PM AdminJar has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19890
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 40 of 300 (238013)
08-28-2005 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by AdminJar
08-28-2005 12:36 PM


nuancing the dodge.
adminjar writes:

We need to be constantly reminded of their presence, their beliefs, their capabilities and limitations. They should be allowed pretty much free rein so that those characteristics may be demonstrated to all.

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

I think there is a clear and intentional bias for two main reasons:

(1) the proportion of people from each camp is different, with a higher proportion of evos defending evolution than creos defending creationism, and this means that they speak for more. If you had a steady flow of creos through the site it would be a different matter.

I also think that over half of americans really don't care one way or the other (because science is for kids that don't play football, and we all know how important football is to education).

The debate is between the 20% at each end of the spectrum that care a lot about the issue.

(2) When you eliminate one side by edict then the need for the site vanishes. This is also an empty "victory" (like winning a football game when the other team doesn't show up)

But in addition there is another factor in this issue, and that is one of knowing how to do science use logic and develop hypothesis from data. It's not so much that those on the creo side are unable to do this as much as it is a fact that they are {by and large\usually\by circumstance beyond their control} untrained in {doing\recognizing\understanding} it (Personally I think this is an area of education that has failed america: teaching logical thought and rational evaluation techiques).

One has to make allowances for people who are learning (some more reluctantly than others) while debating what is considered acceptable to the other side. It's like negotiating your trial for shoplifting bottled water while learning the language at the same time.

That said, there are two rules that I think should be strictly enforced, (1) absolutely no gratuitous ad hominems even by inference (it's so easy to do and so easy to follow suit ... I find myself doing little "digs" and try to minimize them and hold them to concepts not to the posters of the concepts) and (2) providing evidence for a challenged position or withdrawing the statement (including whether your "quote" of another's position is correct or not).

The first is unnecessary for anyone's position, without the second there is no debate but a shouting match with people covering their ears.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by AdminJar, posted 08-28-2005 12:36 PM AdminJar has not yet responded

Lammy
Member
Posts: 3610
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 41 of 300 (238042)
08-28-2005 4:46 PM


My question is how come hoaryhead is permitted to roam the forums even though this guy uses personal attacks half of the time and present fake facts the other half? He's only been here a short time and he is worse than Faith.
  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 42 of 300 (238060)
08-28-2005 5:35 PM


can one of you make this guy stop?
godfearingathiest keeps posting something about his rejected pnt in my thread, totally off topic. i've told him a couple times to cut out, because it's completely the wrong place.

but i guess he really wants to talk about it.

http://http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=17&t=113&m=67#67


אָרַח

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2005 6:58 PM arachnophilia has responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19890
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 43 of 300 (238084)
08-28-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by arachnophilia
08-28-2005 5:35 PM


Re: can one of you make this guy stop?
ignore him totally and see what happens.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by arachnophilia, posted 08-28-2005 5:35 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 08-28-2005 7:02 PM RAZD has not yet responded

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 44 of 300 (238087)
08-28-2005 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by RAZD
08-28-2005 6:58 PM


Re: can one of you make this guy stop?
well, they just suspended him. maybe he'll get the idea.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by RAZD, posted 08-28-2005 6:58 PM RAZD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Nighttrain, posted 08-28-2005 11:26 PM arachnophilia has responded

Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2166 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 45 of 300 (238136)
08-28-2005 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by arachnophilia
08-28-2005 7:02 PM


Re: can one of you make this guy stop?
Hi, Arach, try Nighttrain`s Ten Ironclad Rules of Communication
Rule 1. Never debate a fool or a fanatic
Rules 2-10. Refer to Rule 1.:-P
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by arachnophilia, posted 08-28-2005 7:02 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by arachnophilia, posted 08-30-2005 8:53 PM Nighttrain has not yet responded

  
Prev12
3
456
...
20NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019