Commands from God and his general level of interaction in the modern age

No, God does not go against His commandments either. God does not murder, God executes people for violations of the Law. He is the Judge of us all, and He is a perfect Judge, impartial and exact in His judgments. Again, a law of the universe is "the wages of sin is death." Ananias and Sapphira received their "wages" immediately and suddenly. Most of us take a lifetime to accumulate our death sentence for our disobedience of God. God used His people as instruments of His judgments in the Old Testament (He also used other nations as instruments of His punishments OF His people too). Since Jesus came and the gospel has gone out to all the world, we use the reality of God's judgments against our own sins as the reason to seek salvation in Christ. He was sent for that very purpose, to save us from God's punishment of our violations of His Law, otherwise known as our sins. I've been discussing this very issue on the thread, No Gospel Without Law, No Mercy Without Wrath, if you're interested. Yes, but this refers to the fact that people who come to believe in Christ often experience rejection and hostility from their families, especially Jews. The hostility comes AGAINST the believers, not FROM the believers, and in Jewish families it does often tear the family apart. Parents may disown children who become followers of Christ. Jesus' saying He came to bring a sword and not peace is the same message {Edit: In this case referring to the generalized hostility of the world against Christians.} This is meant as encouragement to the believers, to help them realize that this is to be expected and to hang in there.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-28-2005 11:25 PM

the taoists here would say that's silly. everyone knows you fight fire with water.when people use fire to fight fire, they do it in a controlled fashion. they carefully burn down sections of scrub brush so that the bigger fire has nowhere to go. they don't add fuel, they take it away. and they don't just haphazardly contribute to the fire.This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 08-28-2005 11:23 PM

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אָרַח

The gay rights issue is a tricky one. Many people are ambivalent on it. They don't agree with the victimization from the right, but they are not quite sure where they stand themselves on the issue.There are many christian groups that oppose the "marriage protection" constitutional amendment, and I doubt that there will ever be such an amendment passed.Gay rights questions still need more time to be worked out in the culture. I'm afraid that takes time.

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First of all, I'm not your friend. I would never be friend with someone who hate rather than love. Secondly, it's not a tyrade. Consider it a first step to my vengence upon christianity.

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I don't get it, what happened to you that made you believe Christians hate others, that I hate others, that Christians are all alike? How can you be so ignorant?

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Good for you. Continue and have your faith and hate. Sure, burning people because they're supposedly witches is suppose to be loving them, right? How about beating them to death and errecting a monument conmemorating their supposed entrance to hell?

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People aren't perfect Lam, not even Christians...
I don't do those things. If I have shown you hate, I'm sorry.

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porteus@gmail.com

But this is exactly the whole point of the thread. You wouldn't necessarily know.Many many people who have suffered from Schizophrenia and believe whole heartedly that they are in fact hearing the voice of God.I would much rather have everyone who hears voices head to a mental health facility for a check up than have them do exactly what the voice says.I would guess that if you authentically heard the voice of God, you wouldn't mistake it with schizophrenia, but the opposite is not necessarily true. That's very scary.

Your very existence is an abomination (this is the not so serious me talking). The question is how can YOU be so ignorant? Oh yeah, you're an angry teenager who needs time to catch up with reality.In my case, you can thank your christian buddies for it. Nope, but christians seem to be trying to go the opposite direction. The thing is if you do hate you probably either doesn't realize that it is hate or that you rationalize to yourself that it is not hate.

I'm not just frustrated with the gay rights issue. I'm frustrated at the fact that christians just don't learn. They used to go to other places and exterminate cultures different then them. They used to declare science as plasphemy. They used to burn witches and almost wiped out the cat population of Europe. They used to go on crusades, sacking Constantinople when they were driven from the middle east. They used to enslave other peoples and justify it with "we are helping them by converting them..." It is truly amazing that after 2 thousand years of atrocities they haven't learned a thing, that they are not perfect and that their truth is not necessarily THE TRUTH.Sure, we can be civil and patient with them, but is it going to get us anywhere? While I have sworn to protect with my life their right to freedom of worship, even though I don't believe in their god, they conspire and actively seek out various ways to curb my rights, eliminate true science from the classroom and put in its place christian doctrine, etc.Just look at the US history alone. The overwhelming majority of groups of people who were opposed to social changes for the better were christian groups. They even pointed out biblical passages to block women's right to vote.It's like hitting your neighbor's head with a hammer, denying the fact that it hurt to be hit in the head. After your neighbor have shown you that it does hurt, you proceed to hit him in the shoulder with another hammer, claiming that the head was different and that this time the shoulder shouldn't hurt. After several cycles like this, you still think that you're not hurting him by kicking him in the crotch.Rather than trying to show you each time that the head hurts, then the shoulder hurts, then the arm hurts, etc., the more effective way for the neighbor to deal with this is to kick you in the butt. Either that or to show you that people are people and it hurts everytime you hit a person with a hammer.Christians just can't understand that it hurts.

Ok, let me rephrase what I said. How about we fight a flame thrower with either our own flame thrower or a semi-automatic? Sure, talking to the one holding the flame thrower might turn out to be better, but there's always a big chance you'd end up being toast, especially if the person holding the flame thrower hears voices and he thinks it's from god.

You need some timeoff to rethink your behavior.

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As we've seen time and time again, discussions of homosexuality can basically take over any thread any time.Would some responsible soul open up a thread called "Lam is pissed off" and take this discussion there? Open it up in the Coffee House.I'm sure y'all are having a good time posting away on this subject, so please be sure to move over there ASAP. I wouldn't want any discussion to be missed because this thread got closed.Thanks.Questions? Comments? Issues? You've got all you need right at your fingertips... follow the link below that best addresses your concerns.AbE: Clearly way behind on the times for this one; AdminJar's on top of this one. If you guys want to continue this now, or when Lam comes back, take it to another thread. Thanks.This message has been edited by AdminBen, Sunday, 2005/08/28 09:13 PM

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Getting back on topic----I'll ask some questions. The key word being "We".Do we know (or think that we know) if He gives either direct commands or direct/indirect confirmations to us? In my case, I carefully evaluate my emotional wants and needs in line with reality...and in line with the character of Jesus Christ. I also seek confirmation from others...and not just others from my direct group.You say that IF "We" accept that God is real. To me, this means that you must know Jesus Christ. Nuggin, Mormons are NOT Christians, although Roman Catholics are.I believe that God has interacted directly with everyone, but it is not some mere voice in the mind. It is not a unique and sole event to an individual...it is often confirmed through others.
Example One: When Saul got knocked off his high horse, became temporarily blind, and became Paul, he did have witnesses that corroborated his sanity. He was no lone ranger.
Charlie Manson, by contrast, heard things that nobody else could hear. His messages were at best mental illness and at worst demonic influence.

I was wondering WHO are mediums (and I think specifically ones who say they are christians) talking to?Agents of God?

Some mediums are frauds I'm sure, but real mediums talk to demons, often demons impersonating dead people, hence the popularity of seances and rituals where the medium passes on a message supposedly from a loved one who has died. Mediums are basically witches, and all of it is forbidden by God.SO, if they call themselves Christians, sorry, they're not.{Edit: It's on topic in the sense that "voices from God" may be demon impersonations. In fact some of the more dramatic experiences of hearing voices and other bizarre phenomena make no sense as mental conditions, although that is the catchall classification for all strange experiences it seems, as materialists can't countenance the alternative, but some certainly do have the earmarks of demonic influence and if the person doesn't have any other symptoms of psychological disturbance it's the most likely explanation.}This message has been edited by Faith, 08-29-2005 04:56 AM

Is this "speaking in tongues" business the same sort of deal? A communication with malicious spirits* rather than the holy Spirit?

Unfortunately it CAN be, as can other charismatic phenomena, but in any given case it's hard to know, and since the early church spoke in tongues, we want to be careful how we judge these things. But speaking in tongues doesn't have any dangerous implications as a voice commanding murder does, so we can afford to leave it undetermined.