Hurricane Katrina

Chris, it's not global warming. It's cyclical. Remember Camille and Hazel and Betsy? Plus, there's been a lot of Cat 5s. They just don't tend to hit land as Cat 5s.Before the 50s and 60s cycle of devastation, we had some terrible ones in the 30s, and then terrible ones before that.Heck, one of the worst hurricanes ever hit Rhode Island and buried some of the barrier islands up there under water.We had a break in the 70s and 80s, and we're in the bad cycle now, but by the 2010s, we should be back in the lower cycle again.This message has been edited by randman, 08-31-2005 07:11 PM

While Global Warming is certainly a factor, it's not the main cause. Check out the website from William Gray out in Colorado to get a feeling for the various factors that are involved.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

my apologies. my first answer was based on my experience in MS before the daze of pre-emptive government.Now it appears that (1) in spite of the known extreme hazard to NO (talked about every time a hurricane tips it's hat that-a-way) and (2) in spite of a supposed heightened awareness of mass devastation from any cause (bio-terror to suit-case bombs) that in the case of disaster hitting NO,there was no plan, not at the city level, not at the state level, and not at the federal level, to get the people out of harms way before the event, or even to deal with the aftermath.It seems that the plan was "let's wait and see what happens and deal with it as it goes ..."From what I can see, the only government agency that planned ahead on this was the US Coast Guard (good job eh?).I'm stunned.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

they are, I heard it on the news, with a parkinglot full of little boats from up and down the coast.

There is no point in planning, unless you are going to actually do something about it. To do something about it requires spending money. And that would make you a "tax and spend" liberal. The "give huge tax breaks to the rich and saddle our children with enormous debt" conservatives could never consider such a thing as planning ahead.

when you add heat you add energy.add energy to any system and you see more activity.the difference between a cat 4 and a cat 5 hurricane is dependant on the temperature of the water ... just a small difference is all it takesblanket denial is not realistic

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I know. The irony is that bush will get a popularity boost, not from what he does (say a few countrifried words) but from what the various liberal programs will do ... the ones that move in to help the people pick up the pieces and put their lives back together.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

True, however it is my understanding that we can not yet see a signel for the noise. I am not aware of anything which supports a global warming cause at this level or with what we know so far.My own opinion is that we will see it. And we will be way to far down the road to do much about it by then. (well, unless you count abandonning New Orleans (and Florida) as "doing something.)

we have evidence of it in other systems, some as far as alaska, where trees are being devastated by an insect that now survives the (milder) winters at higher latitudes - woods that had been protected from such depredations for millenia; or antarctica, where ice shelves are calving and disappearing for the first time in recorded (not just by visual experience but from ice core data) history, again for millenia.to dismiss it as "cyclical" is to say "let's not do anything because we possibly maybe hopefully may not have caused some part of it and we are too happy living our life of excess to give up one car ride"while a rational approach would be "it may in fact be cyclical, but we better do whatever we can to minimize the effects or suffer the consequences"

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Katrina wasn't just a Cat 5 hurricane. In fact, the only reason that it was a Cat 5 was that it ran through a good deal of shallow water that reduced its power. While it was on the ocean it was apparently classified as a low-level hypercane, with wind speeds of about 300 mph.

Global warming might be the cause if we start seeing something like Cat6 storms, but honestly, these types of storms have occured in the past. It's not unexpected even. They just didn't prepare for it correctly.Now, the south American hurricane. That might be evidence of global warming, but let's just be honest. This is not the first time a Cat4-5 storm came this way.As far as New Orleans, had they properly fortified the levees, it would not be near as disastrous. It's be the worst hurricane disaster ever probably, but mainly due to more population along the Gulf.It's THE WORST disaster ever though due to faulty preparation and maintenance.Also, I haven't seen too many conservatives in Congress or elsewhere against infrastructure spending. One could argue that the liberals are at fault due to too many regs as well. The truth is no ideology is at fault here. The fault lies in the lack of leadership, and that has a lot to do with us as a people getting what we vote for.

I watched it closely and saw nothing like that. The highest winds were around 200 mph. It's true that this was one of the strongest hurricanes on record (maybe breaking the top 5), but it wasn't the strongest ever. It just hit an area either poorly prepared for it, or too vulnerable to do much about it.It was not unusual if you look at storms over the past 150 years, and it was expected. Had New Orleans just beefed up the levees, the disaster would be terrible, but not the catastrophic level it is today.The Gulf communities directly hit would still, of course, been wiped out, but it's not the first time a hurricane has done that, nor the last.

I don't understand the pictures on the news of the refugees who are sitting along the freeways with no food or water. Has anyone seen this? I know resources are stretched to the max but this is hard to understand. They are just sitting there, people of all ages in all conditions. I know there are also thousands in shelters -- 78,000 I just heard -- but these people are in a pathetic situation. There is nobody coming to bring them even food or water. They are shown just sitting in the hot sun. No place but the concrete to lie down. They are getting desperate. One lady has the dead body of her husband with her. Where is the outpouring of help such as we saw with the tsunami? Or 9/11? A collection for the Red Cross is being taken up in my town, and I assume that's going on elsewhere. I guess they'll get to them but two days in that condition is a long time. Maybe the problem isn't the supplies but ways to get it to them?Edit: Berberry who started this thread hasn't posted since Katrina hit, has he? He's in Vickwburg just north of the major disasters, but they must have been hit too.This message has been edited by Faith, 08-31-2005 09:39 PM

Like I said, the shallow water slowed it down. The speed on the open ocean approached 300 mph. I'll try to find my source.

I am hoping that it is just power out, cable\phone lines down. I was able to make contact with a company in Houma today (on business), so things are picking up.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}