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Author Topic:   What makes so many people hate God
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 211 of 225 (23959)
11-23-2002 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by John
11-21-2002 2:40 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Chara:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
Well, there you have it. The Bible contains the criterion for the messiah. The bible also has the genealogy of Christ-- two in fact. Neither of them are valid messianic lines. Ergo, as per the Bible itself, Christ ain't the messiah.
Oops!
[/B][/QUOTE]
John, you have raised a valid question for which a suitable answer has not been made available to you. The absence of the answer does not prove your point. [/B][/QUOTE]
No, it doesn't. However, in the absense of that answer my point stands. That is as proven as anything gets in the real world.
But on to some specifics. This is the sort of thing which seems to me to be too blatantly obvious for there to not be a ready made response. In fact, it seems like there should be mountains of refutations, correct or not. Yet, I get no response. Nothing. You pick on, for example, the figure for pi in the OT and you get a firestorm. This attack upon the messiah gets nothing? Very strange indeed.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Bumped ... all the way over to here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by John, posted 11-21-2002 2:40 PM John has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 212 of 225 (25043)
11-30-2002 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by forgiven
11-22-2002 2:08 PM


quote:
Originally posted by forgiven:
quote:
Originally posted by John:
Just kinda bumping this thread.
Forgiven??? No response???

just kinda bumping this *grin*... john, will you grant that it isn't entirely true that you haven't been answered? now it is true you haven't liked the answers, but they've been answers...
someone said somewhere around here that there's a difference between science and faith... what's yet to be shown is how 'faith' differs simply because someone adds the word 'God'...
there are people, scientists even, who believe in abiogenesis... they *really* believe it's true... it's not only that they think there's basis for that belief, imo it's also because they *want* it to be true... they have faith it will be proven one day
so christians and atheists alike have faith... the object of their faith might be different...
as for the geneology thing, my post on this reflects the thinking of biblical scholars for centuries... if it isn't acceptable, it isn't... but it is an answer, and it is a possibly correct answer

No, these are different kinds of faith.
The kind of faith that scienctists have in, for example, abiogenesis, is that were reliable, well-tested evidence to come forth which pointed away from abiogenisis, scientists would be required to change thir views.
What evidence would cause you to abandon your religious faith?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by forgiven, posted 11-22-2002 2:08 PM forgiven has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 213 of 225 (25044)
11-30-2002 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by funkmasterfreaky
11-22-2002 4:19 PM


quote:
Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
First off there LL, I already tried the blow up and rant thing, it's a good way to lose any kind of respect you might have hoped to had from the other people here on this site. Secondly sometimes you have to admit to being wrong. You are human, you are flawed, you can be wrong I know this site can be difficult sometimes it's quite humbling actually, shows you what you don't know. Yes John is frustrating when you don't know your stuff take it from me he's good at this. You will also find he's actually a pretty good guy. He boiled my blood when i first came on here, but realize this is a discussion forum and if you post something you better expect someone to contradict you. May the peace of God rule in your heart, that you will not be shaken or dismayed.

Hey, pretty good there Funky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 11-22-2002 4:19 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
logicalunatic
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 225 (27308)
12-19-2002 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky
11-08-2002 12:56 AM


1) Hate God? I feel the same way about Christians and God as you do about children and Santa Claus. We humor childrens' belief in Santa Claus. We don't think he actually exists (He Might) yet we continue to allow our children to believe in him untill they either figure it out for themselves or we finally disabuse them of the belief.
Works almost the same way with Christians and me. I don't know if he exists (He Might) because there is no evidence pointing in either direction. In my opinion Christians have had this belief long enough and if they haven't figured it out for themselves they need to be disabused of it. Not because God isn't real but because we don't know if he's real and, whether he is or not can't be tested.
2) Why don't I believe that God exists? Believe me, I would love to have a big brother watching my back but I'm not going to believe that until I see some evidence. And an out of date book touting God's realness based on itself as evidence is NOT evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 11-08-2002 12:56 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by logicalunatic, posted 12-19-2002 7:49 AM logicalunatic has not replied

  
logicalunatic
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 225 (27311)
12-19-2002 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by gene90
11-09-2002 7:06 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
Plus, for the sake of argument, what if somebody made an experiment out of it and did a statistical analysis of the result? For the sake of argument, what if they found out the prayer made a difference? Wouldn't that eliminate your claim of it being unfalsifiable?

Sorry, I'm coming into this a little bit late BUT...
Does prayer make a difference? That can and has been tested. The most influential of these tests can be read about here.(long) Of all the studies I've found on prayer, the only ones that pass scientific muster are inconclusive.
Does prayer make a difference? That can be tested and a hypothesis about whether or not prayer works is falsifiable. What can't be falsified is the idea that God answers prayers. More than likely, when you pray for something small to happen and that small thing does in fact happen, the outcome is determined either by chance or by your actions and not God's.
If you want something, why do you have to, "meet God half way?" Have you ever read the book Where the Red Fern Grows? In the book the main character prays to God for the two red-bone coon hounds that he saw in the paper. He ended up getting the two puppies after two years of hard work and then attributed his gain to God's will. He claimed that God gave him strength to work as hard as he did to get the cash to buy the pups. Isn't it possible that it was merely his belief in God that gave him the strength? That sounds much more likely to me.
LogicaLunatic
http://www.objectivity.tk

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by gene90, posted 11-09-2002 7:06 PM gene90 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by John, posted 12-19-2002 10:28 AM logicalunatic has not replied

  
logicalunatic
Inactive Member


Message 216 of 225 (27312)
12-19-2002 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by funkmasterfreaky
11-10-2002 4:11 PM


quote:
Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Funk,
Why do you believe in the "spiritual" if you cannot test it?
Mark

Faith. i know that makes no sense to you but that is the answer to what you asked

Then I have a question for you... What makes you trust faith?
LogicaLunatic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 11-10-2002 4:11 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by easybud, posted 10-24-2004 12:57 AM logicalunatic has not replied

  
logicalunatic
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 225 (27316)
12-19-2002 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by funkmasterfreaky
11-21-2002 7:09 PM


The bible has stood through more attacks then any other book. Why? because it completely contradicts the world view.


No thats not why. The Bible and Christianity are still around for two main reasons...
  1. Most Christians have been told that this story is the Truth from a very young age. Kinda like brainwashing. Imagine what would happen if we didn't disabuse children in their belief in Santa.
  2. After being fed this story they're told by the Bible and their elders that they have to have faith and that they won't find any evidence from the material world. Christianity and the Bible wrap themselves in this kind of insulation.


I don't think any other book in history has been combed over to the extent of the bible and yet it stands. Why? because it is God's word.

Nope, see above.
LogicaLunatic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 11-21-2002 7:09 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
logicalunatic
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 225 (27339)
12-19-2002 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by logicalunatic
12-19-2002 2:24 AM


Well, it appears I have come too late I always find it very annoying when I read all the way through a thread and have it basically come to a conclusion and then some FT starts replying to posts from the very beginning.
Whoops...
LogicaLunatic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by logicalunatic, posted 12-19-2002 2:24 AM logicalunatic has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 219 of 225 (27349)
12-19-2002 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by logicalunatic
12-19-2002 3:07 AM


quote:
Originally posted by logicalunatic:
Sorry, I'm coming into this a little bit late BUT...
Does prayer make a difference? That can and has been tested.

And prayer failed, at least in this study. The article that got my attention is here:
Error
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by logicalunatic, posted 12-19-2002 3:07 AM logicalunatic has not replied

  
easybud
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 225 (152486)
10-24-2004 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Karl
11-08-2002 3:09 AM


I FEEL SO HURT WHAT GOD DID TO ME
FIRST HE CREATED ALL THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN PERFECT. GAVE THEM EVERYTHING. THAN ONE OF THEM SINNED! THAN INSTEAD OF CLEANING THAN ANGEL OF SIN IT CAUSED. GOD LET IT LOOSE. THAN IT DECIEVED A THIRD OF GODS ANGELS. HE COULD HAVE CLEANED HIS UNIVERSE OF THAT SIN BEFORE HE CREATED MANKIND BUT HE DID NOT. LET SIN RAN FREE. THAN GOD KNOWNING ALL THINGS CREATED MANKIND AS A FALL GUY HIS SIN PROBLEM HE HAD IN HIS UNIVERSE. KNOWNING MAN WOULD FALL ALSO!!! NOW ONLY 2 SPIRITS SINNED IN THAT GARDEN!!! THE BIBLE SAYS CHILDREN ARE NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR THE SINS OF THE PARENTS. BUT LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. THE CHILDREN ARE ALL BORN IMPERFECT AND IN SIN!!! THE BIBLE LIED!!! I AM SO HURT WHAT GOD DID TO ME. I WAS BORN IMPERFECT IN SIN SPIRITUAL DEAD BLINDED BY SIN AND TO MAKE THINGS WORSE I WAS BORN WITH BRAIN DAMAGE NERVOUS MENTAL PROBLEMS. ALL MY LIFE I HAVE MADE ONE MISTAKE AFTER ANOTHER. I AM 51 YEARS OLD NOW AND STILL GOD HAS NOT HONORED HIS WORD OF GOD IN MY LIFE!!! ALWAYS MAKING SO MANY PROMISES. THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN WRONG BY MAN. I WISH GOD WOULD STAND BY HIS WORD THAT MAN WROTE. I AM IN SUCH PAIN NOW CAN HARDLY MAKE IT TO WORK. I ALWAYS GO BY FAITH IN HIS WORD. GOD ALWAYS LETS ME DOWN. I KNOW HE IS EVERYWHERE AT ONCE PSALM 139. I WISH HE WOULD CARE MORE ON A CHILD HE CREATED AND HAD BORN HERE IN SIN WHICH WAS NOT EVEN MY FAULT. GOD IS THE ONE THAT CREATED ALL OF US AND HAD ALL OF US BORN THE WAY WE ARE TODAY IN SIN AND WITH A DEVIL EVIL BEING GOD LETS RAN FREE. GOD SEEMS SO VERY CRUEL WHAT HE DID TO MANKIND. I HATE LIFE AND NEVER WANTED IT BUT GOD DID IT TO ME. I HATE GOD FOR GIVING ME LIFE HERE ON THIS EARTH. SEEMS SO CRUEL LET A DEVIL EVIL BEING RAN FREE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Karl, posted 11-08-2002 3:09 AM Karl has not replied

  
easybud
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 225 (152488)
10-24-2004 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by logicalunatic
12-19-2002 3:10 AM


IT IS MANS WORD NOT GODS WORD
MAN WROTE THE BIBLE GOD DID NOT. THE BIBLE LIED. THE CHILDREN ARE NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR THE SINS OF THE PARENTS. THAT IS IN GODS WORD WRITTEN BY MAN. BUT LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO ADAM EVE CHILDREN. NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BLAMED FOR THE SINS OF THE PARENTS. THEY WERE BORN IN SIN SPIRITUAL DEAD BLINDED BY SIN DEATH HAD CONTROL OVER TINY LITTLE CHILDREN THAT NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG NEVER. WE ARE ALL SPIRITS BEINGS IN THIS WORLD. THEY WERE BLAMED FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS. THAT IS AGANIST WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. BIBLE GODS WORD LIED. I HATE BEING BORN IN SIN IMPERFECT ON WHAT OTHERS HAD DONE!!! THAT IS NOT EVEN FAIR JUST OR RIGHT. HOW GOD CAN BE SO CRUEL. HAVING TINY LITTLE BABIES BORN IN SIN IMPERFECT AND PUT THEM ALL WITH SUCH EVIL SINFUL DEVIL. GOD IS VERY CRUEL TO WHAT HE DID TO MANKIND. MANKIND NEVER DID ANYTHING TO GOD BUT GOD SURE DID IT TO US. VERY CRUEL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by logicalunatic, posted 12-19-2002 3:10 AM logicalunatic has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by crashfrog, posted 10-24-2004 1:59 AM easybud has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 223 of 225 (152498)
10-24-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by easybud
10-24-2004 12:57 AM


You know what's better than hating God?
Realizing that you're spending a lot of time and effort hating something that doesn't exist. Seriously, give atheism a try. You might get a little peace of mind.
Also, turn off your caps lock. All caps are very hard to read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by easybud, posted 10-24-2004 12:57 AM easybud has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by easybud, posted 10-25-2004 1:27 AM crashfrog has replied

  
easybud
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 225 (152655)
10-25-2004 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by crashfrog
10-24-2004 1:59 AM


Sorry about the Cap Lock
Very hard for me to type the other way like this!!! I have to keep putting down the Shift key to put cap where it goes!!! Oh well I will try Sorry about that! I was just going thr a Hard day! I am a Born Again Christian! I had a really Cool Experience with GOD in the Past, Plus I also Recieved the Holy Spirit from GOD! yes their really is a GOD in the Universe! I know that for a fact! We all have to be Born Again in the Spirit! we are all Spirit beings Living Inside a body! GOD is a Spirit He Created all of us in his Image! Now when you Recieve Jesus Christ as Savior From this Sinful Place we are all Born Into!!! The Living Holy GOD Sends his Holy Spirit down From Heaven to Give New Birth to your Spirit that was Born dead in this Life! I have Gone Thr that Experience already! it is like I am a Brand New Person on the Inside of me! But the Old Self of me Fights Back! At Times I go thr Depression Due to the Old Self of Sin Death I was born into! The Lord Jesus Christ BLESS you with the Wisdom He Gave me! I know the Lord will Jesus Christ Name a'men so be it THank You GOD of LOVE! Love You Brother Larry

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by crashfrog, posted 10-24-2004 1:59 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 225 of 225 (152669)
10-25-2004 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by easybud
10-25-2004 1:27 AM


Wow.
Mood swing much, do we?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by easybud, posted 10-25-2004 1:27 AM easybud has not replied

  
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