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Author Topic:   Hurricane Katrina
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3591 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 181 of 315 (239839)
09-01-2005 11:41 PM


normally don't listen to Krugman, but...
Second question: Why wasn't more preventive action taken? After 2003 the Army Corps of Engineers sharply slowed its flood-control work, including work on sinking levees. "The corps," an Editor and Publisher article says, citing a series of articles in The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, "never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security - coming at the same time as federal tax cuts - was the reason for the strain."

In 2002 the corps' chief resigned, reportedly under threat of being fired, after he criticized the administration's proposed cuts in the corps' budget, including flood-control spending.

Third question: Did the Bush administration destroy FEMA's effectiveness? The administration has, by all accounts, treated the emergency management agency like an unwanted stepchild, leading to a mass exodus of experienced professionals.

Last year James Lee Witt, who won bipartisan praise for his leadership of the agency during the Clinton years, said at a Congressional hearing: "I am extremely concerned that the ability of our nation to prepare for and respond to disasters has been sharply eroded. I hear from emergency managers, local and state leaders, and first responders nearly every day that the FEMA they knew and worked well with has now disappeared."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02krugman.html

I've probably gotten too negative and may need to stop posting on this thread, but this is just heart-breaking. It looks like we have destroyed rather than enhanced our ability to deal with disasters. If we do face WMD attacks on our cities, it seems obvious to me we cannot rely on the authorities at the federal level.


Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1185 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 182 of 315 (239848)
09-02-2005 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by randman
09-01-2005 11:27 PM


Re: Louisiana without clout
the government has let these poor people down.

Key word here - poor.

This government has consistantly turned its back on the poor to America. If the people trapped in NO right now were the donars Bush has been glad handing these last few weeks, we'd have pulled troops out of Iraq to get them clear


This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 315 (239849)
09-02-2005 1:20 AM


Inteiviews with Officals versus news reports
There is an amazing diference between what the federal officals are saying, and what the networks are reporting.

Just an example: a reporter asked the head of FEMA about the dead bodies, in New Orleans--whether it was a health hazard.

He said he didn't know about any dead bodies.

Well, hell, you can see them on TV. Does he watch the news channels?

Obviously a lot of this stuff is being done on the fly, and it's difficult.

The Astrodome in Houston has stopped accepting occupants at around 4-5 thousand, after saying they could take 25,000. The local fire marshall said that's it. Of course, they are providing cots to everyone--it's not like the Superdome. But why could't they do the arithmetic of that in the first place? Seems simple enough.

Anyway all those buses are going elsewhere--God knows where.


robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 184 of 315 (239850)
09-02-2005 1:34 AM


Some Complaints about my fellow Americans
I would also like to respond to all those fools who have been talking about how other countries have not been offering help. I've been running across a lot of that talk lately, and it's not true.

It's just that these other countries don't make a big production out of it like we do.

Over 25 countries have offered any assistance they can--from generators to medical personnel to cash. But they don't advertize it.

I would also like to apologize to my friends from other countries who have to put up with the ill-mannered boasts of my fellow Americans who keep talking about--in the topic about Iraq, for example--how great we are. Sorry.

It's been worming at me ever since I read it.


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Monk
Member (Idle past 2616 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 185 of 315 (239852)
09-02-2005 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by dsv
09-01-2005 10:40 PM


Re: Louisiana without clout
dsv writes:

I agree, especially when the mayor and the citizens are begging for it. As the mayor of New Orleans said, “S.O.S.”

What kind of statement is that, SOS?! I am struck by the abject failure in that remark. It shows much of the reason the situation is getting worse instead of better. A mayor following a well thought out plan as a leader would not need to yell for help and wait until the need is so immediate.

Failure to have a plan and having to be in a situation where the words "SOS" need be uttered is the reason I hold the mayor largely responsible for the continuing suffering. Not the prior cause, but certainly the continuance.

Thor writes:

But I guess it goes back to the planning issue. Having some amtrack units based near major population centres during hurricane season would have been a good piece of forward thinking. Maybe something to think about for future planning.

It doesn't matter what the particulars could be in regards to the exact method of evacuation. Experts can work out the details via various city commissions as part of an evacuation plan.

Yes, it does seem to get back to planning

jar writes:

When will you start planning for the future?

jar, hits the nail with that remark. When to start?

When did Mayor Ray Nagin start planning for the future?

His plan is not evident. Other than to send folks to the Superdome and to dozens of other places around the city. Then what? Is that where the plan ends? Get them to shelter then wait it out? That’s not a plan for evacuation.

I would like to know what Ray Nagin thought as a native of Louisiana when that hurricane turned sustained winds of 160 miles per hour and had a bearing straight for New Orleans. Because as a native of Louisiana, I would know. I would know the very moment I heard the words Category 5. That very moment is the time to begin implementation of the emergency hurricane evacuation plan.

On Saturday, most news reports were reporting the Cat 5 potential when the storm was 300 miles southeast of New Orleans. That was the time to begin coordinating with State and Federal officials. Maybe if that had occurred, and the various agencies coordinated as part of a team, Then desperatly pleading "SOS" could have been avoided.

By Sunday, the evacuation order was made public.

Unfortunately, the plan was to evacuate to the Superdome.

I’m sorry to be so harsh but I find reality particularly stark in the current state of affairs.

Today is Friday. 5 days after the evacuation order. Those people should be out of there by now.

The people of New Orleans will deal with Nagin in the next election.

As for now, and I mean right now, its up to you President Bush.

This message has been edited by Monk, Fri, 09-02-2005 11:20 AM


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black wolf
Junior Member (Idle past 4564 days)
Posts: 10
From: Berlin, Germany
Joined: 09-02-2005


Message 186 of 315 (239868)
09-02-2005 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by robinrohan
09-02-2005 1:34 AM


Re: Some Complaints about my fellow Americans
no offense taken. President Bush has outspokenly rejected help from Germany and France, stating that the US will have no problems dealing with the disaster itself. but that he would accept money anyway. well, i guess he knows what his priorities are...

This message is a reply to:
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dsv
Member (Idle past 3416 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 187 of 315 (239890)
09-02-2005 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Monk
09-02-2005 2:21 AM


Re: Louisiana without clout
Monk writes:

What kind of statement is that, SOS?! I am struck by the abject failure in that remark. It shows much of the reason the situation is getting worse instead of better. A mayor following a well thought out plan as a leader would not need to yell for help and wait until the need is so immediate.

I agree. That's why I think as soon as the people above him heard that this was obviously out of his control, there should have been a step in on the federal level.

Just look at the way President Bush senior handled hurricane Andrew. Much better than his son, in my opinion.


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CK
Member (Idle past 2820 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 188 of 315 (239891)
09-02-2005 9:11 AM


We currently have Bush on a BBC special, he is saying that results are "unacceptable" and he is looking forward to his trip down to the area.

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 189 of 315 (239899)
09-02-2005 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by jar
09-01-2005 10:40 PM


Re: I'm sorry but many of the comments in this thread are just plain funny.
Yeah, totally. They don't call it "hurricane season" because it's one-dollar shooters at Applebee's.

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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 315 (239902)
09-02-2005 9:57 AM


Power finally restored at my house
What a week! We had a hurricane right here in Vicksburg, nearly 200 miles inland. My power went out during the blow and it just came back on about an hour ago. This is the longest period I've ever had to live without electricity, and let me tell you that you just don't know how much you depend on it until it's gone for more than a few hours. Water and gas service was maintained throughout, but no juice until now.

My suffering has been minor compared to what people are going through further south. I've met scores of people who've lost everything or nearly everything they owned. Many of them have loved ones who didn't or couldn't leave and some of those have died. The suffering of these people is palpable; I can only hope that I never have to go through anything close to it.

This is something I will never forget, not that I wouldn't like to.


"I think younger workers — first of all, younger workers have been promised benefits the government — promises that have been promised, benefits that we can't keep. That's just the way it is."— George W. Bush, May 4, 2005

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Verotika
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 315 (239939)
09-02-2005 12:01 PM


Mayor Lashes out at Feds
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- As his city skidded deeper into chaos, New Orleans' embattled mayor accused federal officials of dragging their feet while people are dying in deplorable conditions.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.nagin/index.html

Don't believe the "unacceptable" comments from Bush. Give me a break. Bush is now playing the "disappointed" card.


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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 315 (239940)
09-02-2005 12:07 PM


FEMA
Federal Emergency Management Director Michael Brown told CNN that federal officials were unaware of the crowds at the convention center until Thursday

He wasn't aware of those crowds? I was aware of it. The entire country was aware of those other crowds of people. Why wasn't he?

All you have to do is turn on the television. Damned fool.

This message has been edited by robinrohan, 09-02-2005 11:09 AM


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Monk
Member (Idle past 2616 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 193 of 315 (239946)
09-02-2005 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Verotika
09-02-2005 12:01 PM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
Don't believe the "unacceptable" comments from Bush. Give me a break. Bush is now playing the "disappointed" card.

Why not believe it? Do you think Bush finds the situation "acceptable"?

Do you think Bush is not "disappointed"?


This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 315 (239948)
09-02-2005 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by robinrohan
09-02-2005 12:07 PM


Re: FEMA
The Prez. just said about 30 minutes ago that Brown is doing a "great job. He's working 24 hours a day."

I would like to point out to George W. that there is a difference between doing a great job and working hard. One might work hard and do a very poor job, which is the case here.

I can see, I think, what the problem is. These people have tunnel vision. They are so hyped up about setting "priorities" that they can't see what is obvious to everybody else.

This message has been edited by robinrohan, 09-02-2005 11:30 AM


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Monk
Member (Idle past 2616 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 195 of 315 (239950)
09-02-2005 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Verotika
09-02-2005 12:01 PM


Re: Mayor Lashes out at Feds
The Federal government’s job in these type of disasters is to assist local and state officials. We don’t have a system in this country whereby when disaster strikes, the state and local authorities automatically step aside and let the feds take over.

That’s what needs to happen in NO right now, but that’s only because state and local officials have not done their job.

And what does Mayor Ray Nagin have to say for himself? Other than point fingers, he might say something like:

“Just because I’m the mayor of New Orleans and a life long resident of Louisiana, it doesn't mean I knew a Cat 5 Hurricane could do that much damage. How was I supposed to know that the levees can only withstand a Cat 3. Sure, all sorts of agencies have been saying it for years, but that doesn't mean I knew about it.

I thought all we had to do was send people to the Superdome and other places. I didn’t know the water wouldn’t recede for weeks. I thought flood water would have been gone the next day that’s why my staff didn’t plan any further. Was that wrong?

If someone would have told me that my city rests in a bowl and there is a danger of severe flooding, I might have planned an evacuation route. Was I supposed to do that? Nobody told me. I'm not responsible for helping the people of New Orleans, I'm just the mayor."

This message has been edited by Monk, Fri, 09-02-2005 12:00 PM


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